Everything you want to know about FUJIFILM color RA4 papers

BMbikerider

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Further to my post 149 above.

Getting in touch with Fuji in UK is about as difficult as opening a door lock with the wrong key. I thought speaking to someone in Microsoft was difficult, but this is far worse.! Why do they have to be so secretive?

They do not seem to make an email public and most of the numbers I found do not apply to UK, but I eventually found one - 01234 572000, but they have closed for the day. I will give them a call on Monday and see what they have to say.
 
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koraks

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BMbikerider said:
each pack of two rolls are packed in one container and they are opened in what is to all intents and purposed a darkroom and repacked and made light tight once again
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In the box are two light proof bags. Each roll of paper has its own bag. The box itself is not light proof. The box can safely be opened in daylight, one bag removed to be sold leaving another perfectly fine bag/roll in the box for later use/resale.

The boxes are prepared at the Fuji plant and Fuji are unlikely to sell individual rolls for those sizes that come in pairs by default. I don't think it makes sense to contact Fuji about this, but you can always try. Your best bet is through the originalphotopaper.com website. Your inquiry will end up at the manufacturing plant and they can prepare an answer together with the sales channel. However, I can guarantee you that there is NO sku at Fuji for single small rolls of paper. Imem they cannot be ordered directly from Fuji that way. Asking it is superfluous. Larger rolls come as singles by default already.

For a retailer it's perfectly feasible to do sell individual rolls as outlined above, but they would have to take the risk of being stuck with a single unsold roll if there's no demand for it. This is probably the reason why many/most don't do this.

Again, the bottleneck regarding single roll sales are at the retail end.
 

MattKing

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The one thing I'll say about koraks' totally reasonable post is that it would not be unusual for a manufacturer/distributor to note a trend in the communications they receive and to pass them down to the distributor or retail level.
They could also probably modify packaging slightly to make it easier for retailers to do this - things like duplicating the labelling information on to the original bags.
 

DREW WILEY

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Having been on the other side of the fence, so to speak, for many years, I should interject that one potential reason certain product lines are seemingly off-limits to amateurs involves the either implicit or formal obligations between select users and the manufacturer itself, or mfg Reps in particular. A single high volume dedicated user of a special product like Maxima, hypothetically, will bring that Rep a hundred times more commission income than all the casual users put together, with 1% of the headaches. And big labs themselves might still be struggling to get back to higher altitude after the pandemic nose-dive, and might look very unkindly on any proliferation of some special product they, or similar service providers, thought they had an exclusive handle on.
 

faberryman

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This sounds like going to the grocery store and asking to buy a half box of Pop Tarts. The grocer will probably not accommodate you. The distributor and manufacturer probably won't accommodate you either. The best thing to do is buy a box of paper and save the second roll in the fridge for later. The other option is to split a box of paper with a friend. It is unlikely that grousing about the situation on a photography forum will get you further toward your goal.
 

MattKing

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It would be a better analogy if one went to a commercial supplier and asked to buy half a case lot of a product.
The smallest purchase one can make from B & H of a 10" wide roll of Fuji Chrystal Archive Super P paper is two rolls, each of which are 575 feet long - a total of 958 square feet of paper.
The people posting on this issue here are requesting to be able to buy no more than 479 square feet at a time.
 

BMbikerider

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When I was able to buy the Kodak equivalent they supplied me with 1 roll of 12" wide by 93m (303ft) long roll so it is not rocket science. I was able to load into my home designed and made dispenser. These rolls came in an individual tough, light tight, sealed plastic bag.

As Koraks has already said that the similar rolls from Fuji are two to a box from Fuji to the supplier and encased in light tight sealed bags which must be similar to the Kodak version. So what is to stop them splitting a box and selling a single roll if it is needed. Apart from the cost I don't think I will be able to use 2 full rolls in the time span where the paper starts to degrade.

The ability to use the rolls gave me the flexibility to cut whatever size I wished from 12"x16" right down to 2" wide strips for test strips. Plus buying it in a roll was about 1/3rd the price of pre-cut boxed sheets.

It is slightly different in being able to buy film in say a sealed pack of 10 or even 50 (I wonder why you cannot buy bulk rolls of colour film - Agfa used to supply them before they went under) You can always pop then in the fridge until you need them. A 93m long roll of paper will actually not fit in a domestic fridge or freezer
 
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koraks

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This is the packaging of a 2-roll 8" box:


Two rolls to a box, each roll packed in its own lightproof bag. One remaining roll in the box above; empty bag to the left.


Empty bag; these are paper bags with a black polymer lining on the inside. The material is quite sturdy, but not bulletproof.

Selling single rolls from a box like this would involve taking out one of the rolls and repacking it in a suitable box for shipping. That's all.
 

BMbikerider

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A possible break-though.

I have found another supplier who has single rolls of Fuji Crystal Archive DP11, 12" wide x 354' That alone will give me in theory, 265 x 12 x 16 but in practise 250 sheets allowing for wastage (there always is some) I will have to speak to the company (Process Supplies in London). The cost per roll is shown as £190.83.

The value appears to be even better than Kodak, because a box of 12x16 cut sheets is given as just under £90. So 250 cut sheets (5 boxes) would in theory cost me £450. They are closed until Monday so I will call them then.

The only real doubt I have, is my dispenser was designed and made to hold the Kodak 93m rolls and it was a tight fit then. The Fuji rolls are slightly longer at 109m and consequently thicker so may not actually fit easily.
 
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koraks

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BMbikerider said:
The only doubt I have is my dispenser was designed and made to hold the Kodak 93m rolls and it was a tight fit. The Fuji rolls are slightly longer at 109m and consequently thicker so may not actually fit easily.
Click to expand...

Assuming the papers are of the same thickness, which may not be the case. Endura is/was pretty thick. I suspect the roll diameter may be the same and in fact be an industry standard. Not sure about this though.
 

BMbikerider

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Can you say what the difference is between Fuji Crystal Archive and the|Fuji Crystal Archive 11 paper?
 
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koraks

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Part of it is about layer thickness. Much of it is explained here: https://tinker.koraks.nl/photograph...importance-of-interlayers-in-ra4-color-paper/
Between the various Fuji papers, a notable difference is that the thickness of image-forming layers, interlayers and topcoat layers increases as you go upwards through the price range. The net effect of these differences is larger gamut / greater hue purity and better durability of the print.
There may also be additional chemical differences since plain Crystal Archive is coated with Fuji's 'amateur' emulsions (that's how they call it informally) and DPII uses their professional emulsion. I have yet to get an answer as to the exact differences between both emulsion sets. I do know that the dyes in the final print are exactly the same regardless if it's an 'amateur' or 'pro' paper. So all these papers are very closely related.
 

sasah zib

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OP: a question : do they [ff] know when the CN system became 'unkeyed'
i'm assuming before any of them worked on the mfg.

[nb: keyed means working best with own product. paper complements negative best. was a time when films in a line were called/labd as 'foreign' meaning diff balance; maybe chems contaminate]

[have updated my prior post this thread-- reJe]
 

faberryman

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Yes, like wanting to be able to be buy three Pop Tarts instead of six. I don't know how Pop Tarts are packaged in Canada, but at my grocery store, six Pop Tarts are individually wrapped in foil packets and placed in a sealed box, just as with Fuji two rolls of paper are individual wrapped in plastic bags and placed in a sealed cardboard box. Fuji has undoubtedly determined that is not financially worthwhile (not to mention the headaches) to sell its paper in smaller quantities to a small number of customers. Of course, that may change if there is sufficient demand. After all, due to consumer demand, you can now buy a 12-pack of 8oz Cokes as well as the traditional 12-pack of 12oz Cokes. Coke crunched the numbers and determined that it was financially worthwhile to do so. For customers who want to buy a smaller amount of Fuji paper, work up a business plan taking into consideration all of Fuji's costs for implementing the request, and give them the hard sell. Or, split a box of Fuji paper with a friend. That way nobody has to do anything besides have a friend.
 
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koraks

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@sasah zib it'd unlikely that there will be a straight answer, since it's not a binary thing and "best" is a subjective term.
Also, fortunately, my technical contacts have been working at the plant for most of the time paper has been manufactured there. Any changes over the past 3 decades will have happened in their presence and sometimes with their direct involvement.
 

mshchem

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Last time I bought Pop Tarts there were, in a box of 6, 3 pouches, each with 2 of these horrible pastries. I think these are sold in concert with blood glucose test strips in some US markets.
 

faberryman

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mshchem said:
Last time I bought Pop Tarts there were, in a box of 6, 3 pouches, each with 2 of these horrible pastries. I think these are sold in concert with blood glucose test strips in some US markets.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am remembering the generic Pop Tarts. Or maybe I am remembering the Pop Tart packaging from 30 years ago, which would have been around the time I last bought a box. Or maybe my brain is fried. Lots of possibilities.
 

mshchem

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faberryman said:
Maybe I am remembering the generic Pop Tarts. Or maybe I am remembering the Pop Tart packaging from 30 years ago, which would have been around the time I last bought a box. Or maybe my brain is fried. Lots of possibilities.
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I'm not sure if I could tell the difference between fresh and 30 year old Pop Tarts .

I can't imagine what people from around the globe think when exposed to US junk food, especially the portions.
 

faberryman

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mshchem said:
I'm not sure if I could tell the difference between fresh and 30 year old Pop Tarts .

I can't imagine what people from around the globe think when exposed to US junk food, especially the portions.
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From my travel experience, foreigners line up at American fast food restaurants all day, every day. And some of the stuff you buy in foreign grocery stores is inedible too. As far as portion sizes go, the portions sizes are merely recommendations You don't have to eat a whole Pop Tart. Eat half and save the other half for tomorrow, assuming you haven't gone into a diabetic coma in the interim.
 

mshchem

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koraks said:
Oh man. It's disconcerting. And I don't mean that in a tongue-in-cheek, humorous way at all. I find it genuinely scary.
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The snack food sizes (candy bars, soda, chips (ie crisps), cookies) have literally quadrupled. We could buy a Snickers or a Mars bar for 5 cents, about the size of my adult thumb.

Nuts!
 

DREW WILEY

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Huh? I remember when a 5 cent candy bar was huge compared to today, and small ones didn't even exist. But that was back when sodas were all in glass bottles, pulled out from an ice water cooler.
 

DREW WILEY

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Thank you, Koraks, for interjecting that layering and topcoating distinction. But with respect to the Japan-Made Fujiflex, it's now labeled CAii, even though it hasn't changed since its official upgrade maybe 15 yrs ago. Just a labeling change, apparently, whereas before you had to check the batch code to know if it was the later or earlier type inside the box. So this CAii designation is relative to the category of product involved. And at the top tier of the support medium and expense and food chain, Fujiflex is obviously a very different animal than cut sheet CAii RC paper. Such ambiguity of labeling is nothing new, apparently. In this case, it either simply means "new and improved", and/or deliberately optical-exposure optimized as well as for laser exposure. But there's no doubt the dyes are top tier themselves at the same time. Best gamut of any RA4 medium I've ever worked with or even seen. But I would like to get ahold of some Maxima some day to compare with. The spec sheet color profiles look identical.

As per selling light-sealed pak individual rolls outside apart from a greater boxed quantity, that introduces the need to repackage it for shipment. What Fedex and UPS often seem to mean by "air shipment" is throwing the box out of a plane onto concrete from 6,000 feet above. The more protective layers the better, when it comes to shipping photosensitive products.
 
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mshchem

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DREW WILEY said:
Huh? I remember when a 5 cent candy bar was huge compared to today, and small ones didn't even exist. But that was back when sodas were all in glass bottles, pulled out from an ice water cooler.
Click to expand...

I remember clearly, early 60's getting pop from a machine where my Dad worked 5 cents, you had to maneuver the bottle to the "jaws" of the machine, put in your nickel then pull!
 
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