DDX or D76??

[RattyMouse]

Things were going fine until their distributor quit, so I am guessing the new distributor is the issue. Roberts is just a regional camera retailer. I'm not sure how it got the national distributorship. I don't think Ilford just all of a sudden began mismanaging itself.

And why were they not prepared for a distributor move like that? 85% of my company's business is through distribution. We have *multiple* contingency plans in case a distributor goes bankrupt or something like that. It has happened, several times (globally) and these plans kick in to insure customers are not left holding the bag.

Ilford failed to provide for their North American customers.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

And why were they not prepared for a distributor move like that? 85% of my company's business is through distribution. We have *multiple* contingency plans in case a distributor goes bankrupt or something like that. It has happened, several times (globally) and these plans kick in to insure customers are not left holding the bag.

Ilford failed to provide for their North American customers.

Roberts got it because they’re reasonably centrally located.

Using multiple distributors for every country they sell into pretty significantly increases the amount of inventory Ilford has to pay for up front to keep those channels in stock. Also when Wynit shuttered, Ilford stepped in and directly filled until Roberts took over. All things considered, the transition could have gone a lot worse.

 

[RattyMouse]

Roberts got it because they’re reasonably centrally located.

Using multiple distributors for every country they sell into pretty significantly increases the amount of inventory Ilford has to pay for up front to keep those channels in stock. Also when Wynit shuttered, Ilford stepped in and directly filled until Roberts took over. All things considered, the transition could have gone a lot worse.

B & H has been out of DD-X for quite a long time as well as many different Ilford films. I suppose it could have gone a lot worse but not stocking the biggest name in online photo shopping seems like an epic fail to me.

 

[jim appleyard]

D-76 goes bad over time. HC-110 does not.

True, but that means we'll have to shoot more film and use it up! I'm guessing it's still available in the quart size? I just checked, it's available in the 1 liter size.

Formulary also makes an improved version:
http://stores.photoformulary.com/td-16-improved-d-76/

 

[faberryman]

I'm willing to give Ilford a pass on this hiccup. At least they are not discontinuing film.

 

[RattyMouse]

I'm willing to give Ilford a pass on this hiccup. At least they are not discontinuing film.

Well played!

 

[Bill Burk]

D-76 goes bad over time. HC-110 does not.

The truth in your statement depends on the time scale, because I measure the time over which D-76 goes bad in years (I don't even worry about it unless it's more than 2 years old).

Unless the bottle has been opened, then I measure that time in weeks (after 3-5 weeks, I'll discard an open bottle's remaining contents).

I understand and appreciate the convenience of a concentrate that keeps forever and can be metered out to working strength at any time over decades...

 

[RattyMouse]

The truth in your statement depends on the time scale, because I measure the time over which D-76 goes bad in years (I don't even worry about it unless it's more than 2 years old).

Unless the bottle has been opened, then I measure that time in weeks (after 3-5 weeks, I'll discard an open bottle's remaining contents).

I understand and appreciate the convenience of a concentrate that keeps forever and can be metered out to working strength at any time over decades...

I was talking about D76 solutions, not undissolved powder.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

B & H has been out of DD-X for quite a long time as well as many different Ilford films. I suppose it could have gone a lot worse but not stocking the biggest name in online photo shopping seems like an epic fail to me.

That’s assuming BH sources from the US. Roberts isn’t going to accept orders from them unless they go through the new account process with them. Ilford can’t control if a seller is going to get through the proper channels to get their product.

I’m a little guy and had no problem going through the new account process and started getting product right away. If BH doesn’t do the same, it’s not Ilford’s fault. If BH doesn’t have a bunch of Ilford product, I’d say it’s BHs fault, not Ilford’s fault.

 

[Bill Burk]

I was talking about D76 solutions, not undissolved powder.

I know. It keeps for years (despite the relatively short time warranted by Kodak).

But I get how HC-110 and Rodinal can have fans among people who occasionally enjoy the hobby of developing film... and develop a roll or two every few years.

Even at that rate, the way I use D-76 is sustainable, as I say, it can keep much longer than they say.

 

[RattyMouse]

That’s assuming BH sources from the US. Roberts isn’t going to accept orders from them unless they go through the new account process with them. Ilford can’t control if a seller is going to get through the proper channels to get their product.

I’m a little guy and had no problem going through the new account process and started getting product right away. If BH doesn’t do the same, it’s not Ilford’s fault. If BH doesn’t have a bunch of Ilford product, I’d say it’s BHs fault, not Ilford’s fault.

Nope. I blame Ilford. 100%.

 

[MattKing]

One advantage of D-76 is that it doubles the potential availability - Ilford ID-11 is functionally equivalent.
Those of us who use any Ilford products are fortunate that Roberts Camera stepped up. If Harman had had to rely on the existing distribution channels to replace Wynit, things would be as bad for Ilford products as they are for Kodak and the other participants in the analogue photography market.

 

[Bill Burk]

I mixed up D-76 on six occasions from September 2015 until now. (The pink label is dated 5/7/16).

I forgot to label this batch I am about to start using, which was mixed about three weeks ago.

So I kept the stock for 8, 12, 10 and 5 months... (can you tell I just played catch-up?)

Never any problem with it. I suppose I could produce a scatter plot of aim versus actual contrast versus developer age... Because I have a fair amount of sensitometry in the mix... and I note date mixed on my film runs.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Nope. I blame Ilford. 100%.

Blame who you feel that you must. All I know is that when Roberts was announced, I opened an account with them and started ordering product. That was months ago. I’ve already gone through multiple order cycles with them and they’ve been great. There is absolutely nothing stopping BH from doing the same. In the time it’s taken BH to not carry Ilford stuff, I’ve opened an account and sold thousands of units of Ilford product. BH can do exactly the same thing and have product on its way to them in a matter of days.

The fact that they don’t tells me that there’s something else going on, like they either have simply decided not to stock that stuff, or Ilford figured out what country they where sourcing from and throttled that country back in an effort to make them source from the US, which given that they’re selling in the US, they should probably use the US based distribution channel like everyone else who sells in the US.

As far as I’m concerned, BH not stocking Ilford product means more sales for me. Sales have been brisk and product has been moving. If BH doesn’t want to use what is available to them, that’s not my problem.

 

[Bill Burk]

Anyway RattyMouse, your point is not lost on me. As an occasional operator, I had considered switching to HC-110 for the fact it lasts forever.

My point is that D-76 lasts a long time and could fit into a hobbyists occasional working lifestyle.

It fits mine.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

One advantage of D-76 is that it doubles the potential availability - Ilford ID-11 is functionally equivalent.
Those of us who use any Ilford products are fortunate that Roberts Camera stepped up. If Harman had had to rely on the existing distribution channels to replace Wynit, things would be as bad for Ilford products as they are for Kodak and the other participants in the analogue photography market.

+1

Ordering product for Kodak is a pain and the prices are all over the map between all the sources. With Ilford, Roberts gave me a spreadsheet with everything I can order and what the prices were. From my conversations with my sales rep, the pricing is standardized and everybody pays the same. Getting that spreadsheet was a real eye opener for what I could order. Did you know that you can get HP5+ in 20x24 inch sheets? There might be some lead time, but you can get it.

 

[RattyMouse]

Anyway RattyMouse, your point is not lost on me. As an occasional operator, I had considered switching to HC-110 for the fact it lasts forever.

My point is that D-76 lasts a long time and could fit into a hobbyists occasional working lifestyle.

It fits mine.

Normally I used up my D76 pretty quickly. But during the winters in Shanghai my shooting sometimes slowed down and I saw my D76 discolor and start forming chunks in it. I would not use it in that condition and so tossed it. Making up powered solutions was a hassle as I had to do that at work and bring it home. HC-110 solved all these problems.

 

[Bill Burk]

Ah yes much more convenient.

I always had a lab at home even if it meant doing all the dishes first and keeping quiet about what was in the soup pot last night.

 

[Colin Corneau]

D-76 goes bad over time. HC-110 does not.

I tried HC110 but the thick syrup was a hassle to measure out in small portions...how'd you do it? I regularly use DDX and really like it for faster film (slower film I use Rodinal) or for pushing film.

 

[RattyMouse]

I tried HC110 but the thick syrup was a hassle to measure out in small portions...how'd you do it? I regularly use DDX and really like it for faster film (slower film I use Rodinal) or for pushing film.

I use a 3 ml syringe that I "borrowed" from the lab I work in. We have cases of them so a few missing is no big deal.

I always developed my TMAX400 or Delta 3200 in DD-X with excellent results.

 

[MattKing]

I tried HC110 but the thick syrup was a hassle to measure out in small portions...how'd you do it?

I use a Paterson 45 ml graduate. I put 30 ml of water in it, and then slowly pour a trickle of HC-110 into the centre until the volume rises to 36 ml (if I am aiming for 6 ml of concentrate).
After the first couple of tries, it is easy.
You need to know how to work with the meniscus in a moderately narrow graduate, but that isn't difficult.

 

[mshchem]

Maybe the most enjoyable part of the hobby for me is occasionally mixing solutions from scratch. My normal developer is XTOL, but with 6 or 7 chemicals and a used Ohaus gram balance you can make so many different formulas. D23, D76, proper replenishers. Agfa, Ilford, Ansco on and on. The last time I checked the price of HC110 I was surprised . Having said that HC110 is great, and replenished will last forever.
For the money, the answer to the original question, D-76 is hard to beat for a universal, good value film developer.

 

[RattyMouse]

The last time I checked the price of HC110 I was surprised . Having said that HC110 is great, and replenished will last forever.
For the money, the answer to the original question, D-76 is hard to beat for a universal, good value film developer.

HC-110 is $28.50 a liter, which can develop 166 rolls of film. That's $0.17 per roll of film.
D-76 is $6.95 for 1 gallon of solution. This can develop approximately 24 rolls of film if using a 1:1 mixture. That's $0.28 per roll, almost double the price of HC-110.

 

[pentaxuser]

DD is the replenished version of DDX for use with labs. They’re the same, just different packaging. DD needs the starter added, DDX already has it. You can read all about it on Ilford’s site under their chemistry pages.

Amongst various concerns, the OP and others have mentioned price and rightly so. Isn't there a clue in the above quote that it might be worth pursuing DD as the alternative to DDX?. Certainly in the U.K market you can buy 5L of DD direct from Harman/Ilford Photo at a much better price than the equivalent 5L of DDX. The price difference means that DD is about half the price of DDX and it would seem that despite DD being meant for large volume commercial processes it can be used for small tank processing, even on a one-off use and dump basis without starter.

I cannot of course state that DD will work exactly as DDX does as I have never tried it but certainly I understand that an Ilford Master Printer, as certain people are labelled by IIford itself. has said that DD is the same as DDX except for the replenishment and it may be that either starter can be used for small tank processing or can be eliminated with appropriate alterations to development times.

If all DDX gives you is "convenience" as compared to DD then it comes at quite a premium

Just a thought

pentaxuser

 

[NB23]

Xtol is absolutely marvelous, I’m amazed by it every time.