Converting 120 to 620

[Dan Daniel]

Not in my Kodak Browie Hawkeye camera take up chamber.

I though that you were referring to the Medalist. Yes, there are many 620 cameras that cannot be modified for 120 spools.

 

[Paul Howell]

The Metalist can be modified for 120, I almost bought one that had been modified by Photography on Bald Mt. Only reason I didnt what that I had a Mamiya Universal.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Minor aside here: I assume that you can take a front element focusing lens, find its 'infinity' position for maximum sharpness, and then lock it there and now unit focus the whole lens/shutter block. I did this with an old front element focusing Tessar from a Super Ikonta mounted onto a Minolta Autocord body and got fine results. But maybe I don't understand how these optical designs really work.

Yes, it's possible to do as you say, but I much prefer to leave my cameras unaltered. I converted a Kodak Chevron to 120 for a friend, but would never do it for myself.

 

[xya]

Not in my Kodak Browie Hawkeye camera take up chamber.

That's why most people use a 620 spool to take the film up, as proposed here. Clipping the feed spool just a bit prevents re-spooling in most cases. Works well in my Kodak 620 https://www.120folder.com/kodak_folding_620_angenieux.htm I just tried last week.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Not in my Kodak Browie Hawkeye camera take up chamber.

Brownie Hawkeyes have metal tabs on the film holder that stick out and prevent the back from fitting properly if you try to use 120 film...unless you remove the tabs
Still best to use a 620 take-up spool, though.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Brownie Hawkeyes have metal tabs on the film holder that stick out and prevent the back from fitting properly if you try to use 120 film...unless you remove the tabs
Still best to use a 620 take-up spool, though.

Are you recommending removing that tab? Who agrees and who disagrees?

 

[MTGseattle]

Sorry, I know this info is probably all over in these threads. 120-620 film is the same, but the spools are different. This is the crux of the issue correct?

 

[BrianShaw]

Sorry, I know this info is probably all over in these threads. 120-620 film is the same, but the spools are different. This is the crux of the issue correct?

Yes

 

[MTGseattle]

Thanks

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sorry, I know this info is probably all over in these threads. 120-620 film is the same, but the spools are different. This is the crux of the issue correct?

Smaller diameter center post; smaller diameter end caps.

 

[Truzi]

A reason to not alter the camera is to preserve it.

I was given a Brownie Hawkeye Flash that belonged to one of my grand-aunts. I don't remember it, so she had stopped using it before I was born.

Anyway, it takes 620, and I'd like to use it on occasion for sentimental reasons, but for some impractical reason don't want to alter it. So either I'll respool 120, or hope the drag on the 120 feed spool isn't too great to cause issues.

 

[reddesert]

For some cameras, you can trim the ends of the 120 plastic spool with a pair of fingernail clippers and get it to fit in the supply chamber, and use a 620 takeup spool. This runs some risk of light leaks due to the trimmed flanges, so be careful with handling the roll once it is trimmed.

The Medalist film chamber is pretty tight and I think this trick doesn't work in a Medalist. I have sometimes respooled onto 620. If you get a little "hump" between film and paper, you can try peeling off the tape attaching the head of the film to the paper and reattaching. It will probably only shift the film relative to the paper by a cm or so, likely not enough to affect frame spacing much or affect use in a red-window camera.

The other difference between 620 and 120 is that the slot in the end of the spool and the camera's wind key that drives it are smaller in 620. This is one reason that most of these hacks suggest a 620 takeup spool. The 620 wind key may slip, or spin uselessly, in a 120 spool.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Along with inner diameter and flange diameter, the 620 spool has thinner flanges than 120 spools. This makes 120 spools taller than 620 spools. About 0.5mm flanges on the 620 spools, 1.5mm on the 120 spools. 2mm total difference

Interestingly, the radius of the flange is also about 1mm more on the 120 spools, 2mm total.

The Medalist has a spring-loaded device in the feed chamber that is space for 620 spool width (or height, or 'tallness- i.e. meant for 0.5mm flanges). 120 spools will simply not fit under the spring-loaded device. As the OP (remember way back when...) included reducing flange thickness in his machining.

Film Photography Project had 620 spools made from plastic. Not sure about now, but early ones had flanges that were thicker than 620 spec- 1.0mm, I think- because the molded plastic wasn't strong enough. Fine for most cameras, but they knew that their spools didn't fit most Medalists because of this extra 1.0mm (aggregate) width/height/tallness. Something to watch out for if you are respooling- make certain the spool fits in the feed chamber before loading film onto it.

Takeup spools can be more out of 620 spec because there is more slop at that end and a spring metal tab on one end, not a hard metal rack.

All in all if you are going to respool, I suggest using old 620 spools, the metal ones. I've seen photos of recent metal 620 spools, but there were some assembly tabs on the ends that concerned me- interference with spool holders, winding tab, etc. Like this Ebay listing, where the tabs on the flanges would sit on the bushing around the wind tab. Maybe someone has used them and can report.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Donald Qualls]

If have the machine tools why not convert the camera to 120?

There is good reason why converting a Medalist to 120 is one of the most difficult camera modifications out there. It requires significant metal removal from the supply and takeup chambers, changing the advance key to fit the looser spool slot, and doing all this without compromising light sealing, frame counter drive, or film plane/rollers. Very much not just a machine shop job.

now I just cut down the diameter of the 120 spool (with the fresh film on it) with scizzors. A native 620 spool is used as taking spool.

I do this with my Reflex II and Brownie Hawkeye Flash (and Brownie Bullseye, Duaflexes, as well as my Adapt-A-Roll Six-20), and it works fine (if I'm careful and precise enough, I think I could use the 120 spool for takeup as well), though I use nail clippers rather than scissors -- but word is this will NOT work in a Medalist; the spool length difference exceeds the camera's tolerance. And as noted, thinning the flanges on a 120 spool to 620 spec is risky, moreso with a power tool like a lathe. I've seen video of people doing this with sandpaper or a power sander, but again, there's a little risk; go too thin and you'll edge fog the entire roll as the flange goes to pieces.

Respooling or buying Shanghai GP3 (available factory rolled on new 620 spools) or commercially respooled film is the sensible way to go with a Medalist -- even if you're made of money, only one worker was doing these conversions successfully, as far as I know, and I think I recall reading that he had retired.

If you want/need to carry more than one respooled roll, you can buy new manufacture 620 spools on eBay for a few dollars each, made of metal like the original ones were. They last approximately forever if you process your own film and don't risk a commercial lab trashing them.

 

[MattKing]

Smaller diameter center post; smaller diameter end caps.

And smaller receptacle for the take-up "key".
At least I think "key" is the right term.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And smaller receptacle for the take-up "key".
At least I think "key" is the right term.

I am glad someone had the key to the right word. Now about getting more 620 spools ...

 

[pdccamerqs]

Not sure if it has already been covered, but I bought one of these - makes re-rolling 120 to 620 much easier, especially in a dark bag.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Not sure if it has already been covered, but I bought one of these - makes re-rolling 120 to 620 much easier, especially in a dark bag.

View attachment 338433

Do you go from the 120 roll to a 620 roll and rewind it to a 620 roll or 120 roll to a 120 roll and rewind it to a 620 roll?

 

[BrianShaw]

Instructions:

120 to 620 film converter for Kodak Brownie, Medalist and others | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 120 to 620 film converter for Kodak Brownie, Medalist and others at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

It appears tha the 120 spool is fixed/permanent, so it must be 120 -> 120 -> 620

 

[Rick A]

If you roll 120 -> 620 -> 620 you have less chance of getting the dreaded hump.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you roll 120 -> 620 -> 620 you have less chance of getting the dreaded hump.

And that was exactly what I was thinking about when I posted.

 

[BrianShaw]

If you keep the spools very close together and the film/paper taut, the chance of the jump is minimal. No matter what spool is used as the intermediate.

 

[pdccamerqs]

Do you go from the 120 roll to a 620 roll and rewind it to a 620 roll or 120 roll to a 120 roll and rewind it to a 620 roll?

It's a double step process. 120 to 120 and then back onto the 620.

 

[pdccamerqs]

If you keep the spools very close together and the film/paper taut, the chance of the jump is minimal. No matter what spool is used as the intermediate.

I eliminate the hump by unsticking the tape, pulling the film taught, and then re-sticking it to the backing paper.

 

[pdccamerqs]

The jig comes with instructions