Color vs Black and White, the eternal debate

[nikos79]

Who decides that it's unwanted? Shouldn't that the the photographer's decision and not yours?

I assumed the photographer shared these images for honest feedback. If we’re only meant to say everything looks great, what’s the point?

 

[GregY]

Yes I did. Just a bit figurative that's all and carried away. I really meant different or uninteresting for me. It is just photos after all, I am sure the photographer has 1000 more like them, it is not that I dismissed their Magnus opus.


Not at all. In order to be successful in any of these domains I mentioned you need to be very skilled and study that domain a lot. But again, not interesting for me.


Instagram style:
Aesthetic desperation dressed as depth. High contrast to simulate drama and fake emotion. Honey-sweet sunsets. The list can go long.. It doesn’t whisper. it shouts.

And then comes the moody alley. One person, a lonely dark figure walking into a beam of light lost there. Shadows, symmetry, silence, pretending to be serious. But this isn’t quiet, it’s calculated and carefully constructed. The same cry for attention, just dressed in black and white. Can't you see the fakeness?

No, you're just imposing your thoughts/interpretation on the image. That's neither philosophy nor art criticism.....

 

[nikos79]

No, you're just imposing your thoughts/interpretation on the image. That's neither philosophy nor art criticism.....

I think you are right. If people like the photo or connect to it who am I to tell them they shouldn't?
I think I should stop criticising

 

[Don_ih]

I think I should stop criticising

The issue is: you are not criticizing. You are condemning based on your own preference and prejudices.

Critical evaluation (criticism) is something completely different. It is an outward exercise - not an inward one.

 

[warden]

The issue is: you are not criticizing. You are condemning based on your own preference and prejudices.

Critical evaluation (criticism) is something completely different. It is an outward exercise - not an inward one.

Right on. Criticism is hard and requires actual work and study. At its best it is an art form itself.

 

[dcy]

And then comes the moody alley. One person, a lonely dark figure walking into a beam of light lost there. Shadows, symmetry, silence, pretending to be serious. But this isn’t quiet, it’s calculated and carefully constructed. The same cry for attention, just dressed in black and white. Can't you see the fakeness?

What the.... ???

Can you seriously not see what's wrong with that you're saying?

 

[BrianShaw]

This is an eternal debate. It feels like an eternity already.

 

[dcy]

I assumed the photographer shared these images for honest feedback. If we’re only meant to say everything looks great, what’s the point?

The world does not revolve around you. The purpose of photography is not to get your opinion. People don't need to justify to you why they post a photograph on their website. Furthermore, I do not see the value in "honest feedback" that consists of calling other people's work a "cry for attention", "fake", and "awful". If I were the photographer, and I wanted feedback, I would only be interested in constructive feedback.

What I'm actually wondering is why you feel compelled to spout your prejudices, or to do it so aggressively or with such negativity. I am not a moderator in this forum. But if I was, I would be giving you a warning about what valid criticism looks like. All photography is valid and you do not get to tell people that they're being fake or that their work is a cry for attention. That is not criticism. That is you being unkind and judgmental.

 

[GregY]

N79, to add to dcy's previous post. What expertise do you have (background in photography, philosophy, art criticism) that would lend any weight to what are your personal opinions?
The photographer did not post the photo "Lonely Alley in Venice" nor ask for what you consider "honest feedback."

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Wow... Tough crowd...

I mean, I understand intellectual objections to certain points of view, but things seem to be getting a wee bit personal.

Unnecessarily so, IMHO.

 

[GregY]

Wow... Tough crowd...

I mean, I understand intellectual objections to certain points of view, but things seem to be getting a wee bit personal.

Unnecessarily so, IMHO.

Alex, I disagree.... if you start a discussion as N79 did.....with questionable statements...
"Then I noticed that many people shoot black and white because they think that their photos look more "artistic".
And then make comments that are completely mistaken...
"I assumed the photographer shared these images for honest feedback. "

you're going to get taken to task for it as several people have.
I agree with what Don_ih so succinctly said:

"The issue is: you are not criticizing. You are condemning based on your own preference and prejudices.
Critical evaluation (criticism) is something completely different. It is an outward exercise - not an inward one."

In my opinion, N79 is getting pushback because his statements are largely personal, not intellectual

 

[Milpool]

But when I see a photograph I see it as a whole. I cannot say I like it because of the red bin or because of the blue sky. This is just 3% of the photograph. In order for it to work all 100% needs to work
And the "essence" of this photo for me (no matter in B&W or color) is that it is a mysterious scene and juxtaposition of volumes with a window (the sky) to another level behind it. Strange photo indeed

I don’t know if you find the picture to be good/bad from a “formal” criticism standpoint but if your honest and/or instinctive reaction is to find it strange in some way, that’s good enough for me. I’ll take that kind of response any day of the week whether it’s supposed to be positive or negative.

 

[MTGseattle]

I think there may have been a slight venture off of the tracks in that it sounded like the op was saying a good photograph works in either color or b&w. While I think he meant that there are good photographs in both. There have been quite a few examples posted that show an inversion from one to the other isn't necessarily effective.

I hope this is what has happened, and I haven't misunderstood the whole thing.

The real question is can one make a really good b&w image of a sunset?

 

[Alex Benjamin]

The real question is can one make a really good b&w image of a sunset?

God knows I've tried...

 

[Craig]

The real question is can one make a really good b&w image of a sunset?

Probably not, although a chinook arch might just be a possibility? Maybe?

 

[chuckroast]

Probably not, although a chinook arch might just be a possibility? Maybe?
View attachment 404793View attachment 404794

How do you feel about this one:

 

[Craig]

That could work, although we are sort of trying to put a square peg in a round hole with the sunset thing. They are clearly a thing where colour just works.

CR, your photo looks like a ship sinking!

 

[Arthurwg]

Who's Afraid of Red, Yellow and Blue ? I’am not. The color version is briljant. Yes,I know Newman’s work provokes aggression.

Wow! Good call. I'm a big fan of Barnett Newman.

 

[chuckroast]

That could work, although we are sort of trying to put a square peg in a round hole with the sunset thing. They are clearly a thing where colour just works.

CR, your photo looks like a ship sinking!

It was ship that had sunk already and was sitting grounded in harbor.

 

[nikos79]

N79, to add to dcy's previous post. What expertise do you have (background in photography, philosophy, art criticism) that would lend any weight to what are your personal opinions?
The photographer did not post the photo "Lonely Alley in Venice" nor ask for what you consider "honest feedback."

Honest feedback referred to Milpool's photo, not towards the random instagram photo that was posted here

And anyway that photo I saw it won a 2nd prize in a competition. It got its feedback from serious critics doesn't need my own weird one

 

[nikos79]

I don’t know if you find the picture to be good/bad from a “formal” criticism standpoint but if your honest and/or instinctive reaction is to find it strange in some way, that’s good enough for me. I’ll take that kind of response any day of the week whether it’s supposed to be positive or negative.

Strange means good for me too

 

[nikos79]

The world does not revolve around you. The purpose of photography is not to get your opinion. People don't need to justify to you why they post a photograph on their website. Furthermore, I do not see the value in "honest feedback" that consists of calling other people's work a "cry for attention", "fake", and "awful". If I were the photographer, and I wanted feedback, I would only be interested in constructive feedback.

What I'm actually wondering is why you feel compelled to spout your prejudices, or to do it so aggressively or with such negativity. I am not a moderator in this forum. But if I was, I would be giving you a warning about what valid criticism looks like. All photography is valid and you do not get to tell people that they're being fake or that their work is a cry for attention. That is not criticism. That is you being unkind and judgmental.

But i understand if I offended you I will try and keep my opinions from now on more polite.

 

[nikos79]

God knows I've tried...

View attachment 404792

Me too...

 

[nikos79]

What the.... ???

Can you seriously not see what's wrong with that you're saying?

Now that I was reading it back what i wrote i found it a bit funny to be honest.

But again sorry for that it sounded harsh indeed.

 

[gary mulder]

Now that I was reading it back what i wrote i found it a bit funny to be honest.

But again sorry for that it sounded harsh indeed.

I lost count how many times you wrote sorry in this thread.