Color vs Black and White, the eternal debate

[nikos79]

I lost count how many times you wrote sorry in this thread.

Me too it seems I have to personally write an apologetically letter to all that got offended by my posts

 

[koraks]

Me too it seems I have to personally write an apologetically letter to all that got offended by my posts

There's an alternative.

 

[baachitraka]

Take photos with the medium that you can afford. Either B+W or color, they will compliment with each other.

 

[nikos79]

There's an alternative.

Get hung in the square?

 

[koraks]

Get hung in the square?

I think there are other communities that cater to that kind of interest.

If you find yourself mopping up gallons of water, maybe find the tap and shut it.

 

[snusmumriken]

Am I the only one who finds this thread rather shameful? Hats-off to those who have tried to be courteous. I, for one, don't like to see the brutal comments made in recent posts. @nikos79 isn't the only Photrio member who comes across as strongly opinionated and liable to mistake what he likes or believes with what is good for all. One cannot doubt his interest to discuss photography, and after all the question posed in the OP is fascinating, n'est-ce pas?

To the subject ... @MattKing will hopefully correct me if I am wrong, but I think colour accounted for the majority by far of film sales before the digital revolution. And now digital is colour by default. I recall that when the daily printed media first drifted into colour, colour was preferred for its realism. So newspaper photographers took to shooting on colour negative film, because if the budget ran out and the picture editor wanted to place an image on non-colour pages, colour negative could be printed b/w on special paper. Meanwhile, most amateur camera owners used colour by preference, I suspect for the same reason: better realism.

In the 1970s-90s, my camera was almost always loaded with transparency film to document my work. Generally there were a few photos taken for myself on each roll. All got eaten by fungus some years ago, but of those I had already scanned, not one makes a nice b/w image. Likewise, nothing I have taken on my phone in recent years makes a satisfactory (to me) b/w image.

When I finally managed to separate taking photos for myself from taking them for work, I chose to use b/w because it was manageable on a DIY basis, and one could produce very decent results without too much complication or cost. Colour seemed very tricky by comparison, and anyway, I love b/w prints as a medium. I do consciously avoid shooting subjects that I don't think will work in b/w - I use my phone for those colour pics - they are effectively just souvenirs and at best end up as screen savers on my PC.

So I very much agree with @Vaughn earlier, when he suggested that b/w removes a layer of information - to which I would add that while the colour layer may be essential in one image, it is sometimes irrelevant, distracting, or just dispensible in another. Thus, like others in this thread, I can't agree with the OP that a good photo will be equally good in b/w or colour.

 

[TJones]

I think there may have been a slight venture off of the tracks in that it sounded like the op was saying a good photograph works in either color or b&w. While I think he meant that there are good photographs in both.

OP has been asked to clarify the statement, but has not.

 

[nikos79]

OP has been asked to clarify the statement, but has not.

I wanted to say that of course there are good photographs in both, but my feeling is that a good photograph can work either way in black and white or color. Sure, it can become better in one of the two but not in a sense that a photo can only work in black and white or in color.

And by that I discussed a lot with Alex B the process of how we should choose our photos. If my statement above was true, and we use digital cameras should we just choose them in color as they naturally come from the camera? And then after the initial choice decide which one (color or black and white) fits better?

These were the main questions/observations posted by me. Apart from some unfortunate derails

 

[miha]

Wow... Tough crowd...

I mean, I understand intellectual objections to certain points of view, but things seem to be getting a wee bit personal.

Unnecessarily so, IMHO.

+1

 

[miha]

Am I the only one who finds this thread rather shameful?

You are not.

 

[warden]

The real question is can one make a really good b&w image of a sunset?

This one might not be a really good image, but that's my really good kid running for one last view of the ocean before heading home. Maybe ten years ago.

Wait, I've changed my mind: this is objectively the finest sunset photograph ever created, color or b&w. What do I win??

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If color film and color TV were invented first, we wouldn't have BW.

 

[BrianShaw]

@warden That really is a fantastic image! Thanks for explaining it; Initially I thought it was a sunrise image.

 

[gary mulder]

What do I win??

Applause and artificial flowers

 

[Arthurwg]

I wanted to say that of course there are good photographs in both, but my feeling is that a good photograph can work either way in black and white or color. Sure, it can become better in one of the two but not in a sense that a photo can only work in black and white or in color.

Patently absurd.

 

[warden]

@warden That really is a fantastic image! Thanks for explaining it; Initially I thought it was a sunrise image.

Thanks!

 

[nikos79]

This one might not be a really good image, but that's my really good kid running for one last view of the ocean before heading home. Maybe ten years ago.

Wait, I've changed my mind: this is objectively the finest sunset photograph ever created, color or b&w. What do I win??

View attachment 404818

very nice indeed

 

[nikos79]

I have been pondering whether to share the view of my teacher towards color and in the beginning I had decided firmly not to do it (for various reasons). But heck, the conversation has already got wild anyway, so here are them:
(note: from 2015, some stuff are revised in his opinion)

Platon Rivellis - Black and White and Color Photography

Ο επίσημος ιστότοπος του Πλάτωνα Ριβέλλη, Φωτογράφου και Δασκάλου Φωτογραφίας

www.rivellis.gr

 

[Vaughn]

If color film and color TV were invented first, we wouldn't have BW.

An interesting idea. We must also consider that there were black and white images way before film and TV, so the concept of B&W is as old as ink. And the B&W of night has been with us since sight.

nikos79...Thanks for link to Rivellis' piece. I read much truth in it, and also questionable generalities and interesting opinions. it would be interesting going thru his points one at a time (if I wanted to be on the computer that long!)

 

[djdister]

I had an initial thought that most of the famous oil paintings and "great" works were in color, then after some research I found that assumption is very wrong.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Some compositions work better in color or black & white, and a smaller number work well either one.

 

[chuckroast]

I think there are other communities that cater to that kind of interest.

If you find yourself mopping up gallons of water, maybe find the tap and shut it.

I'm stealing that quote

 

[pentaxuser]

God knows I've tried...

View attachment 404792

Looks pretty good to me

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

This one might not be a really good image, but that's my really good kid running for one last view of the ocean before heading home. Maybe ten years ago.

Wait, I've changed my mind: this is objectively the finest sunset photograph ever created, color or b&w. What do I win??

View attachment 404818

IMHO, this works because of the fact that "sunset" can also be a metaphor.

 

[Don_ih]

Rivellis'... I read much truth in it, and also questionable generalities and interesting opinions.

I agree. That mostly sums him up.