Color Printing RA-4 Yes/No? How do folks print today

[mshchem]

I've got a couple of these with built-in heaters

 

[BMbikerider]

I hope to start up RA4 again in warmer weather, IF my backordered roll of favorite paper ever arrives. It's easy to get cut sheet CAII Fuji Crystal Archive RC paper, so there must be a fair amount of darkroom use.
.

I have used RA4 paper on the roll for a few years now when Kodak stopped making cut sheets in a box. I use 12" wide x 88 m which, although the initial outlay is a lot more it is hugely cheaper in the long run. Unfortunately Kodak seems to be hard to source in UK (Scarcity of supplies) so will have to go over to FUJI. The price difference is not a lot, but the paper base is thinner.

I made a metal paper dispenser with a basic but functional light tight slot at the bottom of the container where I pull the paper out as I need it in almost any size. It took a while designing but well worth it in the end.

 

[Pitotshock]

I've got a couple of these with built-in heaters

That is a cool old instructional video; I don't think I would have been able to piece the whole process together from just looking at the machine. Very neat indeed. After a quick look on the ebay site there is one for sale for $50 in Pennsylvania!

From the looks of it, 100% of the spent chems go down the drain. I don't dump my used RA4 DEV or BLIX down the drain, just the wash water. Are you fully dumping with these guys?

 

[mshchem]

That is a cool old instructional video; I don't think I would have been able to piece the whole process together from just looking at the machine. Very neat indeed. After a quick look on the ebay site there is one for sale for $50 in Pennsylvania!

From the looks of it, 100% of the spent chems go down the drain. I don't dump my used RA4 DEV or BLIX down the drain, just the wash water. Are you fully dumping with these guys?

Yes, I am an enthusiast not a professional. It's easy enough to catch blix in a tray underneath, If you de-silver your blix.

 

[DREW WILEY]

BMbikerider - Fuji roll products seem to differ somewhat in the EU from here. Certain photofinishing papers as well as CA II here are thinner. But there is premium thicker paper there called Maxima (perhaps here too, but hard to acquire), as well as Fuji Super C, which is thicker. But these more premium papers, along with Fujiflex Supergloss, and not available in the small widths like you need.

 

[koraks]

Fuji Crystal Archive Supreme HD is comparable in thickness of the base to Endura and comes also in small rolls such as 12". 2 rolls per box.

 

[mshchem]

Unique photo has Super C, some is available in roll widths as narrow as 5 inch. I have a roll easel (yes I'm crazy). Maybe I should set up a spool to feed the little baby Durst RCP I have

Even I'm not that crazy

 

[Brent Waterworth]

This was the type of thread I was hoping to come across.
I am new here but have been shooting film for awhile now. Most recently got my first experience at color printing in a darkroom lab in Los Angeles & now I'm hooked.

If anyone has any advice on what's a good way to get started while I am converting my garage into a darkroom that would be greatly appreciated.

Been looking for a Fujimoto Cp-31/51 or some table-top processor that would help streamline things but I've had zero luck.

I just came across a CPA 2 online for a really reasonable price but the opinions on drum processing are so divided everywhere I read up on - so I really don't know where to start.

Is a slot processor the best way to go?

Thanks.

 

[mshchem]

This was the type of thread I was hoping to come across.
I am new here but have been shooting film for awhile now. Most recently got my first experience at color printing in a darkroom lab in Los Angeles & now I'm hooked.

If anyone has any advice on what's a good way to get started while I am converting my garage into a darkroom that would be greatly appreciated.

Been looking for a Fujimoto Cp-31/51 or some table-top processor that would help streamline things but I've had zero luck.

I just came across a CPA 2 online for a really reasonable price but the opinions on drum processing are so divided everywhere I read up on - so I really don't know where to start.

Is a slot processor the best way to go?

Thanks.

RA-4 prints can be made very easily in a tray, tube, drum, slot....... The temperature control of fancy equipment is great, but not critical to making good ra4 prints. I would look for some used Unicolor, Beseler etc. tubes. You don't need a roller, just get your chemistry warmed up to recommended temperature in a water bath. Use a nice 102°F prewet/warmup of the tube/print then you are ready to go. Roller transport processors haven't been made in years and are difficult to find in great shape. I've used tubes on and off for over 40 years. Only drawback is they need to be clean and dry before reuse.

 

[Brent Waterworth]

RA-4 prints can be made very easily in a tray, tube, drum, slot....... The temperature control of fancy equipment is great, but not critical to making good ra4 prints. I would look for some used Unicolor, Beseler etc. tubes. You don't need a roller, just get your chemistry warmed up to recommended temperature in a water bath. Use a nice 102°F prewet/warmup of the tube/print then you are ready to go. Roller transport processors haven't been made in years and are difficult to find in great shape. I've used tubes on and off for over 40 years. Only drawback is they need to be clean and dry before reuse.

thank you for this. i guess the main draw to have something temperature regulated/fancy is that I would like to be in my garage (not attached to my 1bed home) that will be sectioned off into a darkroom on one side. there isn’t any access to water aside from a hose in the backyard that I wasn’t planning on joining the party.

would a Jobo processor be more ideal for this
type of a set up?

in my head, I was thinking of essentially filling it up with water & bringing it inside the darkroom space where I would lock myself inside for hours on end making prints.

obviously a roller processor would be ideal but as you said - chances of getting my hands on one of those is slim to none.

i’m trying to do the least in terms of set up in my garage/what tiny space I have - but also have an enjoyable experience so I look forward to making handprints at home.

thanks again for your insight - it’s very much appreciated

 

[Riverman]

I last printed RA4 10 years ago while living in Washington DC. There was a darkroom at the Smithsonian where you could book time to go print. They had decent enlargers and paper developing machines. I previously learned colour darkroom printing at Photofusion in London. More than a decade on and I am looking to get back into it. Now based in Brussels I am excited to learn that a community darkroom in the city is gearing up to offer RA4 printing facilities in 2022.

 

[mshchem]

thank you for this. i guess the main draw to have something temperature regulated/fancy is that I would like to be in my garage (not attached to my 1bed home) that will be sectioned off into a darkroom on one side. there isn’t any access to water aside from a hose in the backyard that I wasn’t planning on joining the party.

would a Jobo processor be more ideal for this
type of a set up?

in my head, I was thinking of essentially filling it up with water & bringing it inside the darkroom space where I would lock myself inside for hours on end making prints.

obviously a roller processor would be ideal but as you said - chances of getting my hands on one of those is slim to none.

i’m trying to do the least in terms of set up in my garage/what tiny space I have - but also have an enjoyable experience so I look forward to making handprints at home.

thanks again for your insight - it’s very much appreciated

I would look for a cheap camping insulated ice chest for your garage. Put it out there and bring a bucket of hot water from the house and dump it in the insulated chest.
Many people on this forum use the Cinestill type water bath heaters for temperature control.
The problem with the Jobo (I have a couple different Jobo machines great) is the print drums (2830) that were cheap, like $35 bucks back in the 1990's are only available used, hard to find and very expensive.

A water bath to warm 1L bottles of developer and bleach-fixer, warm water for pre-warming a tube will work well. The water bath can also be used for C-41 color negative development.
I processed color film for decades with a water bath and a Paterson tank.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I would look for a cheap camping insulated ice chest for your garage. Put it out there and bring a bucket of hot water from the house and dump it in the insulated chest.
Many people on this forum use the Cinestill type water bath heaters for temperature control.
The problem with the Jobo (I have a couple different Jobo machines great) is the print drums (2830) that were cheap, like $35 bucks back in the 1990's are only available used, hard to find and very expensive.

A water bath to warm 1L bottles of developer and bleach-fixer, warm water for pre-warming a tube will work well. The water bath can also be used for C-41 color negative development.
I processed color film for decades with a water bath and a Paterson tank.

The last time I talked to the Darkroom Doctor, he had an available supply of various used Jobo tanks and drums in good condition. darkroomdoctor.com

 

[mshchem]

I last printed RA4 10 years ago while living in Washington DC. There was a darkroom at the Smithsonian where you could book time to go print. They had decent enlargers and paper developing machines. I previously learned colour darkroom printing at Photofusion in London. More than a decade on and I am looking to get back into it. Now based in Brussels I am excited to learn that a community darkroom in the city is gearing up to offer RA4 printing facilities in 2022.

There's a lot of resources in larger cities for darkroom work. I live in a university town, the University of Iowa has darkrooms for the Art schools, no community darkrooms here since the digital age.
Sounds like you have a great place to make prints.

 

[MattKing]

RA-4 can be printed and developed at 20C and still provide high quality results.

 

[mshchem]

I've never tried room temperature RA-4. I know PE processed RA-4 at room temperature in a tray, 2 minutes each for developer and blix. Would be zero investment, just a tray and a watch.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I just don't print color in cold weather. But if I wanted to, my inner darkroom is very well insulated and heats easily. But this is coastal California, and not Hudson Bay with polar bears prowling around outside, just house cats. Otherwise, I just never liked the results of doing RA4 room temp style. I standardize on 83F, 2 min dev and blix.

 

[Brent Waterworth]

I would look for a cheap camping insulated ice chest for your garage. Put it out there and bring a bucket of hot water from the house and dump it in the insulated chest.
Many people on this forum use the Cinestill type water bath heaters for temperature control.
The problem with the Jobo (I have a couple different Jobo machines great) is the print drums (2830) that were cheap, like $35 bucks back in the 1990's are only available used, hard to find and very expensive.

A water bath to warm 1L bottles of developer and bleach-fixer, warm water for pre-warming a tube will work well. The water bath can also be used for C-41 color negative development.
I processed color film for decades with a water bath and a Paterson tank.

Love this option/idea, appreciate the insight.
Seems like people either swear by the Jobo drum system (typically with the lift arm being the x-factor) or are completely against it. This solution caters to the need for a temp. regulated process which is what I would prefer to run.
I might just end up trying this to start with - thank you.

 

[Brent Waterworth]

I just don't print color in cold weather. But if I wanted to, my inner darkroom is very well insulated and heats easily. But this is coastal California, and not Hudson Bay with polar bears prowling around outside, just house cats. Otherwise, I just never liked the results of doing RA4 room temp style. I standardize on 83F, 2 min dev and blix.

So you're saying you heat your Dev + Blix @83F when you process film/make darkroom prints?
I've been reading a lot of people using Kodak RA/RT chem & doing it at room temp - but it just requires longer dev. time. This is true, ya?
I think I read on here too someone compared a room temp dev. to the standard/recommended heated dev. process & one came out super cool in color balance & the other very warm.
Any insight to that? Does any of this (really) matter? I just want consistent results & was planning on following the instructions piece-by-piece (unless any seasoned vets could shed some pro-tips for better results)

Thanks for your reply.

 

[RPC]

I've never tried room temperature RA-4. I know PE processed RA-4 at room temperature in a tray, 2 minutes each for developer and blix. Would be zero investment, just a tray and a watch.

Trays at room temperature is the way I have been doing it for years after saying goodbye to drums.. Very quick and easy and low cost. I would recommend it for beginners.

@Brent Waterworth: I experience no color problems, e.g. no crossover or any other problems. The late PE mentioned above was a member who was a retired Kodak engineer who endorsed the room temperature RA-4 process.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, I dislike trays for health reasons alone. Sufficient ventilation requires air be drawn across the face of the trays toward the back of the sink, which makes precise temp control dicey. And unless prints are relatively small, trays require a lot more chemical volume than drums. And I often print way too big for realistic tray technique anyway. But I have my own drum system, more efficient and larger capacity than Jobo. Actually, all kinds of old drum can be successfully used for RA4, often dirt-cheap on the used market up to 16X20 at least. You don't even need a roller base for casual work - you could just gently roll the drum back and forth along the bed of the sink if you wanted to. But some method of reliable temp control is still needed, regardless.

As far as Brent's comment, it's an incorrect assumption. I never said I process FILM at 83F - that would be ridiculous. I process RA4 PAPER at 83F, which is in fact the industry standard in that case, given 2 minute steps, although alternate time-temp combinations are possible, and are even in the tech sheets accompanying some Ra/Rt kits. But what some people find acceptable in terms of results, I might not. So there's no need for me to quote random opinions of this or that method. I chatted with the late PE many times, and not just on this forum. Great guy. Miss him. But I know darn well how to optimize RA4 printing to a very high standard. As usual, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[mshchem]

Trays at room temperature is the way I have been doing it for years after saying goodbye to drums.. Very quick and easy and low cost. I would recommend it for beginners.

@Brent Waterworth: I experience no color problems, e.g. no crossover or any other problems. The late PE mentioned above was a member who was a retired Kodak engineer who endorsed the room temperature RA-4 process.

I agree with your statement. I haven't used tubes, except for Cibachrome since forever. RA-4 will develop to completion. I use my Kodak rapid color processors, which Kodak referred to as "drum processors" . I love these units, 100°F, 45 seconds developer, 15-20 seconds stop (Kodak SB-1) 45 seconds Bleach- Fixer. No need to fret about time, development is complete in less than 45 seconds, letting it go a bit longer doesn't make any difference, same with blix.
I am thinking about getting out my Nikor rocking print trays. Keeping one liter bottles of chemistry hot, 105 F in a water bath, then into a tray would be fast.

I totally agree that for a first time, trays at room temperature is where to start. That allows the person to realize that correct filtration, color balance of the print is the biggest hurdle.

Of course buying a new Jobo is fun! Get a CPP3 and several 3005 drums, 5 prints at a shot!!

 

[lantau]

Nova is currently redesigning their slot processors. According to their website this is delayed until some time in the first quarter. I could well imagine that their heaters will be available for 230V and 120V. In fact for their current thermostats they don't mention anything about 230V 50Hz only. They are rated 200W per element. The 'new' version ones, which I bought three years ago, do only 150W, each. Maybe they quietly brought out another generation, already.

If financially at all possible at some point, I can only recommend to upgrade to these for the darkroom. Sometimes you find them used, I did. For b/w they are convenient, for colour they make it real fun. A drum, on the other hand, doesn't sound very convenient. But probably without alternative for those few, who make very large prints.

The biggest problem with trays is likely the smell. I'm not that sensitive, unlike many here I consider ammonia and acetic acid in sufficient dilution to be pleasant smelling. But the amine smell for RA-4 developer is not that great. In a closed room without ventilation and in a tray I think I'd start feeling sick eventually. With the slot processor that is greatly reduced. I smell it most when mixing a fresh batch, and when pulling a print from the dev. But it'll go into the stop bath right away.

Fuji does make no smell professional colour chemicals, with 'AC' designation in the name. But they have rather large unit sizes.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Don't confuse low-odor with safe to breathe. That would be a big mistake. Those might make a commercial lab space less annoying, but won't necessarily remove long term health effects if people are careless or the ventilation is substandard. And allergic sensitization, particularly to amines, can build up to a threshold until you don't even realize it, and its too late. I've known of it to happen to commercial lab owners; and I myself was pre-sensitized by exposure to other amine sources first.

 

[mshchem]

Nova is currently redesigning their slot processors. According to their website this is delayed until some time in the first quarter. I could well imagine that their heaters will be available for 230V and 120V. In fact for their current thermostats they don't mention anything about 230V 50Hz only. They are rated 200W per element. The 'new' version ones, which I bought three years ago, do only 150W, each. Maybe they quietly brought out another generation, already.

If financially at all possible at some point, I can only recommend to upgrade to these for the darkroom. Sometimes you find them used, I did. For b/w they are convenient, for colour they make it real fun. A drum, on the other hand, doesn't sound very convenient. But probably without alternative for those few, who make very large prints.

The biggest problem with trays is likely the smell. I'm not that sensitive, unlike many here I consider ammonia and acetic acid in sufficient dilution to be pleasant smelling. But the amine smell for RA-4 developer is not that great. In a closed room without ventilation and in a tray I think I'd start feeling sick eventually. With the slot processor that is greatly reduced. I smell it most when mixing a fresh batch, and when pulling a print from the dev. But it'll go into the stop bath right away.

Fuji does make no smell professional colour chemicals, with 'AC' designation in the name. But they have rather large unit sizes.

I would love to buy a NEW Nova processor.

My point is for a beginner a tray costs about 10 dollars. When the novice figures out how vexing color printing can be, well there's a lot less sunk costs.

Breathing anything other than fresh air is not good. I worked around isocyanates for years, didn't bother me until later in my career. I really can't tolerate the stuff, I would wear a very nice 3M respirator.

I'm with Drew, if I lived in a sweet spot like San Francisco

One thing about Iowa there's about 2 months out of the year, 95°F in the tube would be ambient