Canon F1n - How do I use meter to get correct
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- wiltw
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On this discussion of 'is my meter wrong?' let me offer this insight...
All too few amateur shooters understand that the meter is 'accurate' when the scene being metered AVERAGES TO MIDTONE density. What is 'midtone'?...
...square #4 of the bottom row of this card,
...or the center section of the above target.
If you read the white area of this target (instead of the grey area) with a spotmeter, it results in underexposing your shot by -1.8EV
If you read the black area of this target (instead of the grey area) with a spotmeter, it results in overerexposing your shot by +2.1EV
So you need to consider if the area read by a meter is brighter or darker than the 'midtone average', and if it is then you need to crank in a bit of exposure compensation (i.e. not center the needle in the circle as seen in post #51)
All too few amateur shooters understand that the meter is 'accurate' when the scene being metered AVERAGES TO MIDTONE density. What is 'midtone'?...
...square #4 of the bottom row of this card,
...or the center section of the above target.
If you read the white area of this target (instead of the grey area) with a spotmeter, it results in underexposing your shot by -1.8EV
If you read the black area of this target (instead of the grey area) with a spotmeter, it results in overerexposing your shot by +2.1EV
So you need to consider if the area read by a meter is brighter or darker than the 'midtone average', and if it is then you need to crank in a bit of exposure compensation (i.e. not center the needle in the circle as seen in post #51)
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If you meter the white area and expose for it, notice how underexposed the grey area (with the bullseye target) looks
or if you meter the black area and expose for it, notice how overexposed the same grey area (with the bullseye target) looks
rather than looking like this...
We need to keep in mind that our brain may be fooled by the apparent brightness of different colors. Look at the same color chart, with the color content removed and only the relative brightness of the colors shown...
or if you meter the black area and expose for it, notice how overexposed the same grey area (with the bullseye target) looks
rather than looking like this...
We need to keep in mind that our brain may be fooled by the apparent brightness of different colors. Look at the same color chart, with the color content removed and only the relative brightness of the colors shown...
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Ok so if it overall dark pic aim to add some over exposure.
If very bright overall look to add some underexposure.
But I should still be hovering the centre dot over the subject first for the reading to start with as that's what I am looking for correct?
If very bright overall look to add some underexposure.
But I should still be hovering the centre dot over the subject first for the reading to start with as that's what I am looking for correct?
Only if you want your subject to be middle gray would you put your metering spot on it and use that exposure reading.
If your subject is lighter than middle gray, then (if your metering spot is on the subject) you would choose to overexpose.
If your subject is darker than middle gray, then (if your metering spot is on the subject) you would choose to underexpose.
The meter will always give you a reading for an exposure that results in middle gray (as the examples above show).
Another approach is to pick an element in your photo that should be middle gray and meter that.
I'm not that familiar with the F-1n, but I'm assuming this is some sort of spot-metering function rather than center weighted, averaged, or matrix metering.
I just checked and the F1-N drive cover screw thread is larger than the AE-1/A-1 winder hole. Sorry but they are not interchangeable between AE-1/A-1 and the F1-N.
Dam.... Thought I may have got some online.
Big cheers for taking the time to check.
There is a compartment in the winders and motordrives to hold the covers while the winders are attached to the camera.
I think that there is a sliding cover to these compartments. Have you checked to see if the screw covers aren't stored onboard
the winder?
I think that there is a sliding cover to these compartments. Have you checked to see if the screw covers aren't stored onboard
the winder?
...WHEN the subject tonality is equivalent to 'midtone'. BUT IF...
- the subject is a bride in white gown who fills the frame, and you spotmeter her, you need to OVERexpose from what the meter suggests
- the subject is a groom in dark tux who fills the frame, and you spotmeter him, you need to REDUCE exposure from what the meter suggests
But if the subject fills only a small fraction of the total frame and you are using an averaging pattern that reads most of the frame area (even 'centerweighted'), you do NOT need to bias the reading to the same extent as if you are reading JUST the subject with the spotmeter!
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I think that he above advice is the wrong way round and, in fact, it contradicts the correct advice in Post 54.
As others have pointed out, meters are calibrated to attempt to render the area being metered as a mid-tone which is labelled in most sources as 18% grey. If the subject is brighter then the meter will reduce exposure for the object resulting in it being UNDEREXPOSED. In this instance you have to add exposure so that the object is recorded correctly as the lighter tone. The opposite applies for dark objects.
Some cameras, the Canon AE-1 for example, had a 'Backlight' button which gives an additional 1.5 stops exposure. If you were shooting a backlit subject or snow or bright beach scene then you would press and hold this button to get extra exposure for light coloured subjects or to get more detail in foreground subjects when the light source is behind them (otherwise your main subject would be recorded in silhouette - which can be successful if that is what you want).
Real life objects that are toned close to mid-grey include grass and worn asphalt roadways. Take a reading from these and then compare to the reading for your scene in general. If there are heavy shadows in your background then the reading from the mid-grey will render the shadows correctly. If you use the meter reading from your scene including the shadows then you risk overexposure if the shadow areas dominate the scene as the meter attempts to render the shadows as a lighter tone.
There are many threads regarding exposure here at APUG so you have lots of reading and experimentation to do.
You are correct, I fixed my earlier post.
Yeah it's the external powered winder. Cannot find any such compartment when I last checked for it as saw it in a manual what you were referring to.
The Motor Drive F has got a round recess (might be threaded) at its top to (I assume) take that cap:
The Motor Drive FN has got a threaded recess at the rear of its body to take that cap:
Power Winder FN:
I don't know
A.-series winder A2 got has got a threaded recess:
A-series Winder A got that compartment with a clamp:
A-series Motor Drive MA got that compartment with a clamp too:
The Motor Drive FN has got a threaded recess at the rear of its body to take that cap:
Power Winder FN:
I don't know
A.-series winder A2 got has got a threaded recess:
A-series Winder A got that compartment with a clamp:
A-series Motor Drive MA got that compartment with a clamp too:
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Cheers yes it's the FN winder. I knew the base plate to the right fitted however there was no cover on the back left hand side as I assume it was being used with these contacts being accessed.
Will take a photo of the base plate when film ended and I remove the winder.
Cheers for the help though.
apologies for the dodge camera phone job lol
Will take a photo of the base plate when film ended and I remove the winder.
Cheers for the help though.
With the original Canon F-1, which takes the Motor Drive MF (the first motor drive pictured above), the bottom battery cover is removed, which allows the camera's bottom plate to be removed. The battery cover is then replaced on the camera bottom. This round indentation in the motor drive is there to provide clearance for the installed battery cover. In other words, there are no ports or covers that have to be removed for the old F-1. Just the entire bottom plate.
On the topic of exposure, I've long preferred the F-1's (and FTb's) metering system over all others. Knowing that all a meter is doing is attempting to interpret the subject as 18% gray, I have always paid attention to the subject's light values and when it comes time to take a reading, I will frame the subject such that as much of the subject's mid-tones are within the metering area as possible. If there are no mid-tones, I adjust accordingly. It gets to be second nature after a while. With my New F-1, I have a Partial metering mode screen installed, so I do essentially the same thing with it.
On the topic of exposure, I've long preferred the F-1's (and FTb's) metering system over all others. Knowing that all a meter is doing is attempting to interpret the subject as 18% gray, I have always paid attention to the subject's light values and when it comes time to take a reading, I will frame the subject such that as much of the subject's mid-tones are within the metering area as possible. If there are no mid-tones, I adjust accordingly. It gets to be second nature after a while. With my New F-1, I have a Partial metering mode screen installed, so I do essentially the same thing with it.
Only the Viewfinders and focusing screens for the the original F1 and the updated F1n are interchangeable with each other the viewfinders and focusing screens for the New F1 are unique to to that model , are either centre weighted partial or spot metering and have the suffix FN after their title. (ie Action Finder FN, Focusing screen FN or Motor Drive FN.
Which focusing screen is in the camera ? because the metering pattern depends if the screen, if it's a centre weighted , 12% partial, or 3 degree spot screen and you have to be a little careful where you point the two latter ones http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/metering/index.htm.
Actually, in my experience, where I was shooting slides almost 100% of the time, I found the centerweighted pattern to be the most problematic, and the partial pattern to be best. I've never used a spot pattern screen, but I have a spot meter, so I know about how to use one properly. The reason why I don't like the centerweighted pattern has to do with slide film's very narrow exposure latitude. All it takes is one stray light source for the meter to respond to and the image will be severely underexposed. I found that switching to a camera with the partial pattern eliminated this problem because I had better control over the area that was being metered.
Now, if the user is going to be using print film only, then a centerweighted pattern will probably work fine in most instances. Although, even with print film, partial will work better, simply because it's providing a more accurate overall reading of the scene.
Officially, the only part that interchanges between the original and New F-1 is the eyepiece ring. But! Regarding finder interchangeability, there was a time when I had both a New F-1 and an old F-1 and, just for grins, I tried swapping finders on the two cameras. What I discovered was that the old F-1 finder will not fit onto the New F-1, but a New F-1 finder will fit onto an old F-1. The specific finder I tried was the plain one, not the AE Finder. I suspect the AE Finder FN's hook up will be more problematic, since it's designed to interface with the shutter speed dial. But anyway, the plain prism did slide into place and it did work -- sort of. There was a gap along the front and the eye relief must have been different because my eye was having trouble focusing -- like when you try looking through a set of prescription eyeglasses that aren't yours. But still, it's worth knowing that, in an emergency let's say, one can substitute New for old finders on the original F-1. Sport finders, for example, with their greater eye relief, may actually be a practical substitute.
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These remarks about giving more exposure to brides in white dresses and less to grooms in dark suits are correct but only in the case of negative film, for reversal film it's the other way round.
Some information here (see below) might help you. I use a Wein cell in my Canon TX and Yashica Minister D RF and it seems to work OK, though I have not yet shot a roll through either as both need a CLA.
I bought my Wein Cell battery on eBay from the UK and it was expensive and have since purchased a MR-9 adapter from Japan. So hopefully the expensive initial outlay for the MR-9 adapter will save money over the long run as I can use it in multiple cameras.
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/batt-adapt-us.pdf
http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_px625.htm
http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_mr9_adapter.htm
Let's analyze this to see who is right and who is wrong here...
- Meter aimed at 18% gray card says (in bright sun) ISO 100 1/100 f/16
- Meter aimed at bride in white wedding gown in bright sun says ISO 100 f/100 f/26
- So you need to tell the meter that the subject is too bright compared to an 18% gray target "the target is 1..5EV brighter than 18% gray", setting EC +1.5EV, so it reads ISO 100 1/100 f/16 -- which is 1.5EV MORE exposure than ISO 100 f/100 f/26
And shooting color neg vs transparency has NOTHING to do with nothing, relative to the three bullets.
I learned years ago that you had to overexpose a snow scene by at least one stop or else the snow looked -- you guessed it -- 18% gray. Same goes for a bridal gown.
Look at it another way. Say we're taking photos of the bride outdoors on a bright sunny day. The Sunny f/16 Rule applies. No need to meter the gown at all, since we already know that correct exposure will conform to the Sunny f/16 Rule. But if we did meter the gown, we would have underexposed everything. Wiltw is right -- the type of emulsion doesn't matter, since we're dealing with exposure.
Look at it another way. Say we're taking photos of the bride outdoors on a bright sunny day. The Sunny f/16 Rule applies. No need to meter the gown at all, since we already know that correct exposure will conform to the Sunny f/16 Rule. But if we did meter the gown, we would have underexposed everything. Wiltw is right -- the type of emulsion doesn't matter, since we're dealing with exposure.
No, the more exposure you give reversal film the lighter the image on the slide, if you need to show detail in the bride's white gown on slide film you reduce exposure. It's reversal film, positive film for projection on a screen by transmitted light not negative to be printed.
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