Can expired E6 film fail entirely?

[blee1996]

Hi, I'm puzzled by a batch of expired Kodak EPP 100 slide film I bought off eBay recently. After development, they turn entirely clear without any images. I have used tons of expired film, both B&W and color, slide and negatives. Even super expired film can produce images, albeit grainy, has base fog, losing sensitivity, has strong color cast, etc etc. This is the first time I got absolutely nothing from a roll of expired slide film. They are all sealed and have expiration date of 2006. Have you ever experienced this? Any possible reasons? I still have 7 rolls left and it will be a shame to waste all of them.

I ruled out the camera issue or the development issue because
- I used the same Rolleiflex 2.8C (most trusted mechanically) for two rolls of film: one Ektar 100 turns out great, but EPPP100 turns out nothing
- I developed two rolls of film in one tank (Unicolor Rapid E6 kit): the Velvia 50 turns out fine, but EPP 100 turns out nothing
- I developed yet another two rolls of film in one tank again (Tetenol Colortec E6 kit, fresh): the Fuji Provia 100F turns out great, but EPP100 turns out nothing. See below image: top is Provia 100F, bottom is EPP100

Some film packaging images. Expiration date 2006, all sealed, never opened.

 

[cmacd123]

fogged by x-ray in shipping?

 

[blee1996]

I was hoping for the expired EPP100 look like this from several years ago:

Sunset lightscape #2 by Zheng, on Flickr

 

[MattKing]

fogged by x-ray in shipping?

Or by really, really extreme heat.

 

[blee1996]

Both of you might be right: DEA super x-rayed it, and then burned it.

 

[mshchem]

I've never seen that. Looks it was exposed to light. Something zapped it.

 

[koraks]

Looks it was exposed to light.

Yes, in its entirety. Very odd, given that the foil wrappers seem to be intact.

fogged by x-ray in shipping?

Well, the pattern would be atypical in the sense that there's no pattern...typically with xray fog, you get some kind of pattern with variations in how badly a particular film segment is affected. Could be wavy lines, straight lines, more or less sharply defined, etc. But I've never seen an x-ray damage example where the fog was absolutely complete.

I'm stumped!

Both of you might be right: DEA super x-rayed it, and then burned it.

CIA used it for target practice with their super advanced & secret high power death-ray infrared laser experiments.

 

[John Salim]

Sadly I see this all the time.
Folk buy expired colour reversal film ( usually from eBay ) and consequently are disappointed with their results.

Unlike negative film which can generally be used with 'good' results if down rated and processed normally, the first signs of deterioration with colour reversal film is a loss of colour balance, then the older they get, loss of contrast and base density ( D-max ).
The very worse case scenario I see is an almost clear film with trace images !

John S

 

[koraks]

The very worse case scenario I see is an almost clear film with trace images !

So where are the trace images on this film? Also, this expired in 2006. You'd expect the clear film with trace images on film stock from the 1980s or early 1990s at the latest. Film from 2006 will generally yield a recognizable image. Unless it was stored on top of a bread oven in a bakery, I suppose. Or a south-facing windowsill. Either way, storage conditions must have been phenomenally bad for the film to be essentially entirely fogged all across.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You buy 16-year-old expired film from an unknown seller on Ebay and wonder why it's not working.

 

[skorpiius]

I'm surprised there's no edge printing even. Would even the worst heat or x-rays completely wipe out the latent image of the edge printing?

 

[koraks]

Would even the worst heat or x-rays completely wipe out the latent image of the edge printing?

Fully fogged film will indeed no longer show any edge printing.

 

[pentaxuser]

CIA used it for target practice with their super advanced & secret high power death-ray infrared laser experiments.

Was that the famous CIA officer B Crabb?

pentaxuser

 

[John Salim]

So where are the trace images on this film? Also, this expired in 2006. You'd expect the clear film with trace images on film stock from the 1980s or early 1990s at the latest. Film from 2006 will generally yield a recognizable image. Unless it was stored on top of a bread oven in a bakery, I suppose. Or a south-facing windowsill. Either way, storage conditions must have been phenomenally bad for the film to be essentially entirely fogged all across.

I meant films will occasionally have trace images, but some will have nothing at all including edge-print.
Kodak Ektachromes seem to go off quickest !

John S

 

[Ernst-Jan]

You buy 16-year-old expired film from an unknown seller on Ebay and wonder why it's not working.

That's not that old?

 

[koraks]

Not to mention that 'not working' is a very generic qualification. By all means, having 16-year old slide film produce totally blank slides with no image information on them whatsoever certainly is puzzling, or at least unusual.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

That's not that old?

That's what I keep telling my wife.

 

[abruzzi]

someone gave me some rolls of ektachrome in 120 that expired in 1986, and I shot them without issue (well, the colors were way off, but they recorded an image normally.) So I wouldn't expect 16 years to go blank.

 

[blee1996]

If anyone is intrigued and wanted to experiment further, I can send you two rolls of this film at my own cost.

 

[Roger Cole]

You buy 16-year-old expired film from an unknown seller on Ebay and wonder why it's not working.

No one would expect it to "work" like fresh film. But it certainly should produce an image. I've shot older slide film than that and got recognizable, just grainy and off-color, images. That was what the OP was really going for.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

No one would expect it to "work" like fresh film. But it certainly should produce an image. I've shot older slide film than that and got recognizable, just grainy and off-color, images. That was what the OP was really going for.

I once bought a VHS video camera off the street in Manhattan, NYC for $80, a real bargain. I checked before paying for it and the box was all factory wrapped and sealed. When I got home and opened it, it was full of old NY Times newspapers. That's all. I learned my lesson.

Maybe the OP bought from the same guy.

 

[Terryro]

Just a thought. Maybe shoot another roll and just process it as it's B&W film. See if there's even silver image to reverse?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Just a thought. Maybe shoot another roll and just process it as it's B&W film. See if there's even silver image to reverse?

Hold it up to the light and see if there's any newsprint on it.

 

[Terryro]

As I understand it, in the E6 process, the first developer forms a negative silver image in the different dye layers. If there's an image then the color dyes have croaked. Just trying to shed some light on the mystery.

 

[blee1996]

I think @Terryro has a good point. I will try to develop it in B&W soup.