Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[Harry Callahan]

I see, still i think its interesting. It *might* work with the actual P30 as it is said to be made according to the original receipe.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Disappearing the original thread is a huge loss. It spoke to the re-establishment of a film market and its participants in a seminal way; warts and all. A real shame; I don't care about the reasons.

 

[faberryman]

Do we know that the new P30 emulsion is exactly the same as the old P30 emulsion?

 

[cmacd123]

Disappearing the original thread is a huge loss. .

the old thread is still on View at
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hello-apug-from-film-ferrania-part-2.128272/

in fact the ORIGINAL thread by David Bias is also still here at
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hello-apug-from-film-ferrania.118854/

But the thread is now closed to comments. We can still have thoughts about the film industry on this thread, (which has spelling mis-tooks in the title that I deeply apologise for.)

The Ferrania website unfortunately does not have any sign of updates since the old thread was clossed.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Thank you for that. I read the thread start to finish when I first joined this site; history in the making.

 

[fdonadio]

Disappearing the original thread is a huge loss. It spoke to the re-establishment of a film market and its participants in a seminal way; warts and all. A real shame; I don't care about the reasons.

It didn’t disappear, it’s just locked for new posts. You can browse and read everything that has been posted there.

Edit: sorry, I am late. @cmacd123 said it way better than me.

 

[wlodekmj]

the old thread is still on View at
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hello-apug-from-film-ferrania-part-2.128272/
......
But the thread is now closed to comments. We can still have thoughts about the film industry on this thread...

A closed thread is history - a live thread is history in the making.

Each is interesting in its own way, but a lot of us want to hear the latest information or to participate in discussion, even if sometimes off-topic but related to the topic.

For example - maybe Ferrania have slowed down in their efforts to bring back an E6 film, now that Ektachrome is back. Or are they now going to try harder to get their product onto the market in 2019? Or are they doing their best irrespective of what Kodak and Fuji do? We don't know, but we want to know.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Do we know that the new P30 emulsion is exactly the same as the old P30 emulsion?

I think so. Somewhere they did post a picture of the hand-written formula from the 60s, matching their coater they found in their archive. Maybe there were some slight modifications, but i think i recall them using the original formula. But even if there were slight modifications it shouldn´t make a developer completely useless.

 

[mshchem]

I just checked, no new updates on Ferrania website. Store is closed, says that it will reopen early 2019. I really wonder what their plan is? I can't believe that color reversal film is still in the works?
I'm really hopeful that Ferrania can find a nice niche market. I would think that traditional black and white film, like P30 and old formulations like Super XX, Royal Pan, etc could be very popular .
Adox is making great progress, I expect to see great things from them.
Hoping that 2019 is the year that Ferrania gets up and running, profitably and continuously.
Mike

 

[pentaxuser]

Given how long Ferrania have been involved with a new E6, Super and P30 and it is only the latter that appears to have been launched and presumably earned those in Ferrania some income, I am curious as to how they have lived for so long without revenue while presumably spending money on equipment, research etc

Has the kickstarter contributions been enough to fund all they have done so far and provide an income also? Anyone have any knowledge on this?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Berri]

With ektachrome on the market, do you think there is still need for another reversal film.
Mind you that old ferrania reversal film was quite poor quality.
At this point they should just focus on their P30 and try to produce it consistently. Forget about reversal film.

 

[cmacd123]

With ektachrome on the market, do you think there is still need for another reversal film.
Mind you that old ferrania reversal film was quite poor quality.
At this point they should just focus on their P30 and try to produce it consistently. Forget about reversal film.

the 3M film was "different" from Ektachrome or it's other competitors. most was sold as private label so may have been seen as worse for that. some users may very well prefer the different pallet available in the other film.

Ektachrome as it is currently marketed is only available in a few formats. Part of the deal with the Italian stuff is that it might be made is almost any format, including ones like Regular8 and 16mm that Kodak is not addressing.

The 3M colour Negative film was also sold mostly as private label and is also capable of a different look. and yes, the B&W which was hardly marketed outside of Italy includes several intriguing films, I hate the imagine the storm that would be generated here if their was a rumour that "I72" might be resurrected. (that might require some modifications to the QC process in the coating and packaging lines)

 

[Berri]

EKTACHROME will be 16mm (there was a post about it today on Kodak's FB page), and I am sure we will get 120 and 5x4 in a year or so.
I think it would be best for ferrania to stick with BW film for a few years.

 

[cmacd123]

I think it would be best for ferrania to stick with BW film for a few years.

here is hoping for a range of what ever they can produce and sell, the more the more merry. And I have a couple of Regular 8 cameras that would love to take some pictures again.

 

[Harry Callahan]

With ektachrome on the market, do you think there is still need for another reversal film.
Mind you that old ferrania reversal film was quite poor quality.
At this point they should just focus on their P30 and try to produce it consistently. Forget about reversal film.

Hi Berry.
As i said in another thread:
"As i assumed Ektachrome is quite expensive in europe.
If we take the S8-cartridge for example the cheapest price in europe is 60€ (without shipping; and there are some asking 65€ per cartridge) for one S8-cartridge. With one Euro being about 1.15$ at the moment, this is 69$ for one cartridge without developement.
Ferrania had priced one S8-cartridge of "Ferraniachrome" at 50$ at their Kickstartercampaign, indicating that price even might drop a little once the coater is expanded and everything fully running. But if we assume that they will offer one S8-cartridge for 50$ this would be cheaper by about 30% than Kodak - and during the Kickstarter they teamed up with a lab which was meant to provide free processing for the films of the campaign.
This now probably is obsolete, but being 30% cheaper than Kodak in europe is competitive, taken into account that their film will be grainier. Ferrania then will be the "good`n cheap" alternative to Kodak and such producers always have been around, no matter what product you look at."

 

[Berri]

Hi Berry.
As i said in another thread:
"As i assumed Ektachrome is quite expensive in europe.
If we take the S8-cartridge for example the cheapest price in europe is 60€ (without shipping; and there are some asking 65€ per cartridge) for one S8-cartridge. With one Euro being about 1.15$ at the moment, this is 69$ for one cartridge without developement.
Ferrania had priced one S8-cartridge of "Ferraniachrome" at 50$ at their Kickstartercampaign, indicating that price even might drop a little once the coater is expanded and everything fully running. But if we assume that they will offer one S8-cartridge for 50$ this would be cheaper by about 30% than Kodak - and during the Kickstarter they teamed up with a lab which was meant to provide free processing for the films of the campaign.
This now probably is obsolete, but being 30% cheaper than Kodak in europe is competitive, taken into account that their film will be grainier. Ferrania then will be the "good`n cheap" alternative to Kodak and such producers always have been around, no matter what product you look at."

Maybe I got it wrong, but I am sure reversal lab in the Netherlands sells it for 65€ including processing

 

[Wallendo]

I am still hopeful of receiving a Ferrania E-6 film sometime in the next few years, but if not I will know that I at least helped finance a valiant effort.

What disturbed me with the old thread was the number of users who seriously seem to want Ferrania to fail. This animosity frequently extends to all start-up film enterprises. Although I sometimes tire of the seemingly endless rebrandings of Foma's products and repurposing of AGFA surveillance film, I applaud those who try to expand the market for film. I suspect that some of the "haters" are driven by concern that new B&W film manufacturers will somehow lead to the demise of existing manufacturers.

 

[darkroommike]

EKTACHROME will be 16mm (there was a post about it today on Kodak's FB page), and I am sure we will get 120 and 5x4 in a year or so.
I think it would be best for ferrania to stick with BW film for a few years.

I don't think so. All the Ektachrome formats in production or announced have one thing in common. they are all "cine" formats: Super 8, 16mm, 35mm, even 70mm all use the same base thickness and can be cut from the same master rolls. 4x5 (exception Technical Pan) is cut from stock with a thicker base and 120 rolls (exception early Tmax and Tech Pan) are cut from a thinner base master roll.

 

[Berri]

I don't think so. All the Ektachrome formats in production or announced have one thing in common. they are all "cine" formats: Super 8, 16mm, 35mm, even 70mm all use the same base thickness and can be cut from the same master rolls. 4x5 (exception Technical Pan) is cut from stock with a thicker base and 120 rolls (exception early Tmax and Tech Pan) are cut from a thinner base master roll.

Of the film sells, I don't think Kodak will find it too difficult to coat the emulsion onto a different base.

 

[MattKing]

Of the film sells, I don't think Kodak will find it too difficult to coat the emulsion onto a different base.

When Kodak undertook the process of bringing back Ektachrome, there were a significant number of changes made necessary by the changes that had occurred in the interim in the industry. The work they did re-engineering (essentially a complete rebuild) to take into account changes in what suppliers could supply as well as taking the opportunity to make small but meaningful improvements to the new film - slightly better acutance, adjustment of the film’s sensitometric position so that the whites were whiter, and the colors more accurate, more stability in keeping and improved cold store keeping of the emulsions - will have to be at least partially redone when the format changes and new substrate is used. The different water absorption characteristics alone of the different bases mandates extensive work.
From what I can tell, don't expect any new formats any earlier than the 4th quarter of 2019.
All of which makes Ferrania's task seem even more daunting - I wish them well.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well said, Matt.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Maybe I got it wrong, but I am sure reversal lab in the Netherlands sells it for 65€ including processing

I just looked, they have 1 S8 cartridge including processing for 63.90€, but without shipment and VAT which is 21%. Including VAT its 77.32€ which is about 88.91$ at the moment. Seems like they only do sell with development at the moment, so you´ll have to add shipping costs.

 

[faberryman]

I just looked, they have 1 S8 cartridge including processing for 63.90€, but without shipment and VAT which is 21%. Including VAT its 77.32€ which is about 88.91$ at the moment. Seems like they only do sell with development at the moment, so you´ll have to add shipping costs.

Seems like a lot for 3.5 minutes. Cost has to be a damper on an Ektachrome revival.

 

[ME Super]

I for one see a huge hole in the reversal film market. The question is, who will step up and fill it?

"What is that huge hole?" you ask. That huge hole is high speed color reversal film. I for one would like to see at least an ISO 400 reversal film. Fuji no longer makes it, and neither does Kodak. If I want slides, and I want to shoot handheld indoors, I have three options:

1. Use electronic flash, but this negates natural lighting
2. Underexpose and push, but not exactly practical if you want to shoot at EI 1600 or higher, and maybe not even practical at EI 800
3. Shoot color negative, then have slides made from that (but this is a hybrid process which many will not want to do), and this gets expensive at $2/pop, plus the cost of shooting the color negative film in the first place.

B&W reversal can be done at home if you're set up for that sort of thing, or use DR5's process. I can, and do, shoot HP5+ (an ISO 400 film) at EI 1600 and send it through DR5 Film Lab's process, and the resulting B&W slides are absolutely gorgeous. I think HP5+ pushes so well in this process because it's a low-contrast film to begin with, and we all know that pushing film boosts the contrast.

The question is, will Ferrania be able and willing to introduce an ISO 400 reversal film? There's already a plethora of B&W films out there to choose from, some of which reverse quite nicely, but what we really need is an ISO 400 color reversal film, and right now there are none!

 

[Roger Cole]

EKTACHROME will be 16mm (there was a post about it today on Kodak's FB page), and I am sure we will get 120 and 5x4 in a year or so.
I think it would be best for ferrania to stick with BW film for a few years.

Now that we have Ektachrome back so we have a whopping total of three choices in 100 speed E6 film, assuming we do get Ektachrome in 120 and 4x5 soon, what we really need is a 400 speed E6 film. Yes you can push 100 to 400 with pretty good results, but a) not as good as a good "born at 400" film, and b) you can also push the 400 to 1600 with generally also acceptable results.

I still have frozen Provia 400x but obviously a very finite supply. Love that film.