B&H Lists XTOl (5L) as Discontinued

[JParker]

........... but color has never been a huge amateur home processing market.

In the longer past, yes.
But that has probably changed in the last years of the film resurgence. Color developing at home has become very popular. You can find youtube videos about that with about 800,000 (!) views.
My favourite film and chemistry distributors also told me that the demand for that has massively increased in the last years.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Right, but most American distributors were locked into Kodak for color chemistry none the less. Not to mention that Kodak documentation seems much easier to find (online) than that for Fuji chemicals -- with the combined result that most Americans, even those who do their own color developing, have never used Fuji Hunt chemicals, at least under that name.

 

[Roger Cole]

ECN-2 and processing ECN-2 in C-41, not so much E6 and way less even for RA4.

 

[John Salim]

Simple question:
Will XTOL ever be manufactured again ?

I assume Kodak are struggling to find a company capable of making this 'soup', and I'd hate to see it disappear forever ( ... as it's been my standard developer since it was introduced back in the early 1990's ).

John S

 

[Don_ih]

I assume Kodak are struggling to find a company capable of making this 'soup'

There's already a long, current thread about this. And there are endless discussions about Kodak and Sino Promise in almost every other thread....

 

[koraks]

There's already a long, current thread about this.

Indeed, so I've merged John's with it.

 

[John Salim]

Thank you Koraks ... I'll have a good read through those threads
Sorry to everyone if I've unintentionally stirred a hornets nest !

Best wishes,
John S

 

[koraks]

No worries, John. I've made a sticky to make those existing threads easier to find; I don't expect anyone to dig through many pages of thread titles before posting, so hopefully an easily found sticky thread with a couple of links will help!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Simple question:
Will XTOL ever be manufactured again ?

I assume Kodak are struggling to find a company capable of making this 'soup', and I'd hate to see it disappear forever ( ... as it's been my standard developer since it was introduced back in the early 1990's ).

John S

I would rather Kodak work on making XTOL than a lousy bowl of soup. Not that is a term that I really had. Especially when there are good English words around starting with "developer".

 

[Wescustogo]

New guy here,
I saw it was discontinued on B&H and ordered some off Amazon for a bit more than what it used to sell for. As someone just starting out it is worrisome to see the loss of so many products in the past years. Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

New guy here,
I saw it was discontinued on B&H and ordered some off Amazon for a bit more than what it used to sell for. As someone just starting out it is worrisome to see the loss of so many products in the past years. Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

Adox already makes one. XT-3.

 

[ant!]

New guy here,
I saw it was discontinued on B&H and ordered some off Amazon for a bit more than what it used to sell for. As someone just starting out it is worrisome to see the loss of so many products in the past years. Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

For many products, there are eqivalents, like from Ilford, Adox, Foma and others. Availability differs of course from one market to the other...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

Not to mention (assuming it doesn't/didn't come from the same factory) EcoPro offers an even more exact clone of Xtol. The ADOX formula has been modified to given identical performance but without borates, while the EcoPro appears to be identical to production Xtol. I've got five liters of the EcoPro mixed as stock for replenishment, and another 5L package unmixed, so I'll be good for a while; if neither one is available when I need more of that sort of developer I'll order XT-3.

My other developers, Parodinal and D-23/DK-25R, I mix in my own darkroom, and I'll mix my own D-72 when I get back to printing.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I spoke to LTI Lightside a pro dip and dunk lab in NYC that I've used. They had been using XTOL standardly. They will be switching over to Ilford and will be testing it over the next few weeks when their stock of XTOL runs out.

 

[pentaxuser]

Hm, I am not a lawyer, but if one of the parties don't fulfil the contract anymore - in this case Sino Promise Holdings, they stopped supplying the products - than the other contract partner is not obliged to the contract anymore.

Yes, that was my first thought. Otherwise it might as well be a contract with George Orwell's Ministry of Truth in 1984

pentaxuser

 

[retina_restoration]

New guy here,
I saw it was discontinued on B&H and ordered some off Amazon for a bit more than what it used to sell for. As someone just starting out it is worrisome to see the loss of so many products in the past years. Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

Be careful when buying from Amazon or (gawd forbid) eBay: some of these sellers are unloading packages of Xtol from the bad batches, to get rid of it.

 

[dynachrome]

Freestyle sells 5 liter packets of its Ecopro piwder developer which is supposed to work like X-tol. Somewhere I have one of those that I haven't tried yet. I think I will use a 5 gallon paint bucket to mix it up and put it into smaller bottles. I would prefer a 1 gallon package.

 

[Wescustogo]

Be careful when buying from Amazon or (gawd forbid) eBay: some of these sellers are unloading packages of Xtol from the bad batches, to get rid of it.

The two current sellers trace back to brick and mortar stores but I’m still wary. I just want to be able to use the product with such a long reputation before it’s gone forever. Even if there are very similar products I don’t think it will be exactly the same.

 

[Sirius Glass]

New guy here,
I saw it was discontinued on B&H and ordered some off Amazon for a bit more than what it used to sell for. As someone just starting out it is worrisome to see the loss of so many products in the past years. Hopefully at least some other company can make a similar formula if it's gone for good.

Welcome to APUG Photrio!!​

 

[runswithsizzers]

The two current sellers trace back to brick and mortar stores but I’m still wary. I just want to be able to use the product with such a long reputation before it’s gone forever. Even if there are very similar products I don’t think it will be exactly the same.

I don't know how much you know about Kodak Xtol's "long reputation" but it is worth mentioning, that reputation is not all good. There are many references to sudden Xtol failures. I believe one of the two authors of the Film Developing Cookbook refused to use Xtol ever again after ruining some important negatives in Xtol-gone-bad. More recently there were several batches of Xtol recalled by Kodak Alaris. In spite of that, I continue to use and recommend Xtol (and Eco-Pro), but I do take the extra step of checking my stock solution for activity before each processing run.

I have done a fair bit of reading about Kodak Xtol and the other ascorbic acid + phenidone developers like LegacyPro Eco-Pro, Adox XT-3, Fomadon Excel, etc. While they may not be "exactly the same," I have never heard anyone say they could see any differences in the resulting negatives. Unless someone can offer evidence suggesting otherwise, I believe it is fair to say Xtol and the Xtol-clones are functionally equivalent.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether I use Kodak Xtol or LegacyPro Eco-Pro. I might be able to say the same about Adox XT-3 and/or Fomadon Excel, but those products are more difficult to obtain here in the US, and I have not yet tried them.

 

[Wescustogo]

I don't know how much you know about Kodak Xtol's "long reputation" but it is worth mentioning, that reputation is not all good. There are many references to sudden Xtol failures. I believe one of the two authors of the Film Developing Cookbook refused to use Xtol ever again after ruining some important negatives in Xtol-gone-bad. More recently there were several batches of Xtol recalled by Kodak Alaris. In spite of that, I continue to use and recommend Xtol (and Eco-Pro), but I do take the extra step of checking my stock solution for activity before each processing run.

I have done a fair bit of reading about Kodak Xtol and the other ascorbic acid + phenidone developers like LegacyPro Eco-Pro, Adox XT-3, Fomadon Excel, etc. While they may not be "exactly the same," I have never heard anyone say they could see any differences in the resulting negatives. Unless someone can offer evidence suggesting otherwise, I believe it is fair to say Xtol and the Xtol-clones are functionally equivalent.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether I use Kodak Xtol or LegacyPro Eco-Pro. I might be able to say the same about Adox XT-3 and/or Fomadon Excel, but those products are more difficult to obtain here in the US, and I have not yet tried them.

Reputation to me as in the results it gives (when working well). I've read about the sudden death failures about Xtol and D-76 which I believe were from factory impurities in the mixes?

I've been given access to a nice dark room and my mindset is that I want to experience all there is for developing film before certain products are taken off the market for good.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don't know how much you know about Kodak Xtol's "long reputation" but it is worth mentioning, that reputation is not all good. There are many references to sudden Xtol failures. I believe one of the two authors of the Film Developing Cookbook refused to use Xtol ever again after ruining some important negatives in Xtol-gone-bad. More recently there were several batches of Xtol recalled by Kodak Alaris. In spite of that, I continue to use and recommend Xtol (and Eco-Pro), but I do take the extra step of checking my stock solution for activity before each processing run.

I have done a fair bit of reading about Kodak Xtol and the other ascorbic acid + phenidone developers like LegacyPro Eco-Pro, Adox XT-3, Fomadon Excel, etc. While they may not be "exactly the same," I have never heard anyone say they could see any differences in the resulting negatives. Unless someone can offer evidence suggesting otherwise, I believe it is fair to say Xtol and the Xtol-clones are functionally equivalent.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether I use Kodak Xtol or LegacyPro Eco-Pro. I might be able to say the same about Adox XT-3 and/or Fomadon Excel, but those products are more difficult to obtain here in the US, and I have not yet tried them.

I have been using XTOL for over a decade and never had a sudden death or any other problem. Anyone knowing what they are doing developing film will always test a developer before using it to develop film especially if the developer has not been used for a long time. Therefore, I always test any developer before using. This is not rocket science.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I don't know how much you know about Kodak Xtol's "long reputation" but it is worth mentioning, that reputation is not all good. There are many references to sudden Xtol failures. I believe one of the two authors of the Film Developing Cookbook refused to use Xtol ever again after ruining some important negatives in Xtol-gone-bad. More recently there were several batches of Xtol recalled by Kodak Alaris. In spite of that, I continue to use and recommend Xtol (and Eco-Pro), but I do take the extra step of checking my stock solution for activity before each processing run.

I have done a fair bit of reading about Kodak Xtol and the other ascorbic acid + phenidone developers like LegacyPro Eco-Pro, Adox XT-3, Fomadon Excel, etc. While they may not be "exactly the same," I have never heard anyone say they could see any differences in the resulting negatives. Unless someone can offer evidence suggesting otherwise, I believe it is fair to say Xtol and the Xtol-clones are functionally equivalent.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether I use Kodak Xtol or LegacyPro Eco-Pro. I might be able to say the same about Adox XT-3 and/or Fomadon Excel, but those products are more difficult to obtain here in the US, and I have not yet tried them.

I'm now using Adox XT-3 instead of Xtol. I use XT-3 replenished the same as I did Xtol and so far I'm more than happy with the switch.

 

[mshchem]

I've never had any problems with XTOL or Ecopro. I have a 5 L batch of the Adox version made up, will try as soon as I get to it. I get great results, I love the stuff. I have run one shot with a Jobo, sheet film tanks replenished with manual agitation. I always use purified water.

I have plenty of developer in stock, Ecopro is a good substitute here in N America. There's plenty of great developer options out there.

 

[Roseha]

I spoke to LTI Lightside a pro dip and dunk lab in NYC that I've used. They had been using XTOL standardly. They will be switching over to Ilford and will be testing it over the next few weeks when their stock of XTOL runs out.

I also send film to LTI and had mailed them 4 rolls of black and white this week. They called me to let me know that there would be a delay of a few days while they tested the Ilford chemicals as XTOL was no longer being manufactured.

This was the first I'd heard about the XTOL discontinuation.