Autopan vs colenta ra-4 machines

[mshchem]

Well, mshchem - that looks like a DIY copy of one of those Old Kodak external rim drum processors. I've always wondered how well one of those would work with large fiber-based black and white paper, which tends to collapse inside a drum. Not that I'm going to test the idea - just buying a box of 16X20 b&w paper has gotten awfully expensive these days; and my notion of using an external net drum would hypothetically apply to more like 30X40 inch b&w prints. Still - worth pondering.

This is the Kodak external drum machine. 16k Kodak Rapid Color processor

Keeps temperature dead on. Internal water, roughly 5 gallons, circulation pump. Print floats face down on the chemistry. Takes about 10 minutes to warm up. 45s developer, I use a stop for about 20s, blix 45s, wash on machine for 90s. Run print through my Ilfospeed dryer, 45s max.
Clean up is rinse off machine, hang up the net blanket, turn off the machine and your done. I always swish out the sink underneath. I add maybe a mL of an antimicrobial humidifier treatment so the tank stays fresh between runs.

 

[ScandiPhoto]

This is the Kodak external drum machine. 16k Kodak Rapid Color processor

Keeps temperature dead on. Internal water, roughly 5 gallons, circulation pump. Print floats face down on the chemistry. Takes about 10 minutes to warm up. 45s developer, I use a stop for about 20s, blix 45s, wash on machine for 90s. Run print through my Ilfospeed dryer, 45s max.
Clean up is rinse off machine, hang up the net blanket, turn off the machine and your done. I always swish out the sink underneath. I add maybe a mL of an antimicrobial humidifier treatment so the tank stays fresh between runs.

That system deserves its own thread.

And it has one. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/anyone-run-a-kodak-16k-rapid-color-processor.141703/

 

[Klaus Mähring]

Thanks for the input. If one were to store the machine for short or longer periods. Should it be stored empty/dry, or filled with water?

I'd store it dry.
Long ago I had a beast that size. I stored it filled with water and it started moulding....

 

[foc]

Commercial type processors, as has been noted above, are designed for continuous use.

Yes they can be drained and the machine cleaned BUT in my experience, this is the very boring bit and after many times doing the draining and washing and cleaning and refilling, sometimes corners are cut, and that's when problems start to appear.

If you have the volume, then by all means do it. If not then think twice.

Just a simple and rough rule of thumb in commercial RA4 (similar to C41), you need to turn over your developer tank volume once a month. In other words, if your dev tank is 15L then you need to have used 15L of dev replenisher in a month.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The old Kodak external net drum system wouldn't work for me because the chem is on the outside, exposing one to the vapors in the darkroom, just like open trays or tanks. I have to work with enclosed drums outdoors to minimize the risk of respiratory sensitization. I have a nice big porch awning just outside of the darkroom complex for sake of that, along with a portable cart bearing the big rotation device.

 

[ScandiPhoto]

The old Kodak external net drum system wouldn't work for me because the chem is on the outside, exposing one to the vapors in the darkroom, just like open trays or tanks. I have to work with enclosed drums outdoors to minimize the risk of respiratory sensitization. I have a nice big porch awning just outside of the darkroom complex for sake of that, along with a portable cart bearing the big rotation device.

Would you mind sharing some photos of your construction? Would be fun to se how it looks.

 

[Carnie Bob]

I wrote a bit with Thomas Stäbler at https://www.autopan.de

He still repair and service the Autopan units in Europe.

I owned a colenta RA processer as well as a custom cibachrome colenta. They were very good machines, worked with Autopan as a couple of labs.

I would suggest go with the machine where you can get parts , service and manuals so you can learn everything about the machine . It really boils down
to who will fix, maintain and quality control one of these machines.
I no longer do either RA4 or Cibachrome but my experience is extensive with auto machines and in all cases its all about maintenence.

 

[Carnie Bob]

View attachment 421340

16x20 uses 8 fl.oz of chemistry (you can get by with less)

I started my photo life one one of these K16s and am looking to purchase one again to revisit my youth, totally great unit.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I haven't linked pictures before. I might be able to do it with a cell phone; but this old platform I'm using is getting pretty far out of synch.

 

[Carnie Bob]

Well, mshchem - that looks like a DIY copy of one of those Old Kodak external rim drum processors. I've always wondered how well one of those would work with large fiber-based black and white paper, which tends to collapse inside a drum. Not that I'm going to test the idea - just buying a box of 16X20 b&w paper has gotten awfully expensive these days; and my notion of using an external net drum would hypothetically apply to more like 30X40 inch b&w prints. Still - worth pondering.

Not to be a know it all but I can confirm that you could produce fibre base prints with a unit like this and yes if you had a huge drum you could do 30 x 40 inch

 

[mshchem]

Not to be a know it all but I can confirm that you could produce fibre base prints with a unit like this and yes if you had a huge drum you could do 30 x 40 inch

The model 30 was a enormous tube ( not drum ) similar to the Jobo scheme. And the Kodak machines were designed to use Ektacolor Professional fibre base color paper. 7.5 minutes with 5 chemical solutions. These could also process Ektachrome prints and transparent display film.

 

[MarkS]

Thanks for the input. If one were to store the machine for short or longer periods. Should it be stored empty/dry, or filled with water?

I don't know. I worked for a large corporation, part of a research photo lab, and there were photo-lab engineers, QC experts, and chemists handy to answer such questions.
Running the color machines was just one part of my little group's responsibility (and as the photographers, we processed our own film and prints). By department policy, the RA-4 (and C-41) machines were kept ready to go almost all the time (which is what led to the under-utilization problems).
If the machine is to be left unused for weeks, I'd say drain it and fill with water- then empty it. But it's really not a situation to be in..
I would reach out to Kodak, the processor manufacturers, and especially commercial lab operators for advice. My own experience stopped around 2009, and I was not an expert. I did get to mix chemistry and clean the machines when necessary, two things I don't miss at all. I'm sure these issues can be solved though- best of luck!

 

[mshchem]

I just was checking out the Colenta website, pretty cool, the baby machine would require a lot of volume. Very cool.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, it would be fairly easy for me to convert my backup 30X40 drum and roller device which is inside the sink room to external paper use - for b&w exclusively (no RA4 fumes, although I do have an air exhaustion port right above it the whole length of the machine). Easy for me to hypothetically make and test in principle. I deserve a phD in small shop Jerry-rigging. But with b&w paper prices where they are right now, and only going up, up, up, it's unlikely I'll be able to buy it in wide roll fashion. Still, it would be nice to see the result. Actual silver paper has subtle toning possibilities which inkjet can only covet from a distance.

 

[mshchem]

I want to see one of the 1965 Colenta rotary processors in action

 

[DREW WILEY]

At my mountain property, I once had a big fat possum sneak into the laundry room, somehow get under the washing machine lid, and got himself rotary processed for awhile. He certainly wasn't amused. But at least he didn't drown and came out clean.

 

[mshchem]

At my mountain property, I once had a big fat possum sneak into the laundry room, somehow get under the washing machine lid, and got himself rotary processed for awhile. He certainly wasn't amused. But at least he didn't drown and came out clean.

Yikes! I had ground hogs, never got inside, dug 5 feet down and tried to make a home. Called a guy, caught him and took him for a little trip to the "country"

 

[ScandiPhoto]

I feel this tread has derailed a bit

Original question was the difference between differense RT machines. And I any particular brand was better when buying used equipment. So far the response has been, buy something that can be serviced and repaired.

Lot of posts say, dont do it. Due to costs and maintenance. Unfortunately I have not found any alternative ways of developing multiple 120 cm (50") RA-4 prints that is practical and efficient. So I will try to buy a well functioning RT when I find one.

Thank you all for contributing. If anyone has more direct info and first person knowledge, feel free to PM me.

Moderator:
Feel free to close this thread

 

[koraks]

Feel free to close this thread

Consider it done, with thanks to all who have contributed their knowledge and insight!
If anyone would want to add comments based on hands-on or verifiable experience with the question asked in post #1, please don't hesitate to use the 'report' function and we can re-open the thread.