Autochrome Latex

[Photo Engineer]

Black of Fume = Carbon Black, obtained from the smoke of burning tallow candles. Please be careful because some carbon blacks will cause bad things to happen to modern photographic emulsions. We learned this during construction of the instant film packs which contained carbon black in the coating and in the processing goo.

PE

 

[shaz]

Hello PE,

Thank you for this. I learn something .

I hope that my is the same that Louis Lumière. For me and for the moment it's "not important"... i just want to try to make "one" autochrome...just one .
Do you know a substitute of carbon black please PE ?

Thank you in advance.

Shaz

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Single or one autochrome will cost you 500 euros or more. You need to buy a red dye costing you 5 grams 200 euros.

With this money , you could buy 10 autochromes or more 100 years of age.

I think you must make a glass screen and another glass for panchro emulsion. You might face the empty side of your screen to panchro coated glass.

With this invention , you could make lots of autochromes not single.

And your if your emulsion is not matched to 120 years old one , your result will not be an autochrome but something different.

Its like lieing yourself.

Umut

 

[shaz]

Hello Umut,

I don't really understang all the things you write , but if i have well understand a little, someone can give me panchromatic emulsion.
Do you speack about this ?

If you speack about the dyes..i know that it will cost me 275 euros. And i can have 25 grams each.

Why do you say lieing : what does that mean ?

Shaz

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Let me explain

NOT every panchromatic emulsion GIVES YOU exact ORIGINAL Autochrome COLORS.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

EXACT AUTOCHROME SCREEN IS POSSIBLE TODAY
BUT NOT PANCHROMATIC EMULSION.

OLD PANCHROMATIC EMULSION IS IMPOSSIBLE TODAY

SO

YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO REACH ORIGINAL COLORS

 

[shaz]

Perhaps it will be good panchromatic emulsion .
I will not made myself my panchromatic emulsion...i'm not mad.
The most important think for me is to try something...who made autochrome like Louis Lumière ?

Shaz

 

[shaz]

And where is the problem if it's not exactly like the original ?

Shaz

 

[holmburgers]

And where is the problem if it's not exactly like the original ?

Shaz

Amen!

Too much stock is being put into the particulars of the autochrome, like its emulsion, its dyes, etc., but I think the "look" is more largely due to the it being a screen-plate photograph PERIOD.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Carbon black in gelatin coats very well and carbon black in carboxy methyl cellulose makes a very thick black opaque goo.

If your Autochrome does not equal the original Autochrome, then it is not Autochrome. We can call it Shazchrome.

PE

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Well told , PE .

 

[shaz]

That's ok for Shazchrome.
Thank you Holmburgers...i think that you understand how i think.
There is again one thing...I have a family, and the most important thing is that my family eat. The exactly recipe like Louis Lumière will cost me too much money.

I realize this there's a long time now.

Shaz

 

[holmburgers]

Feed your family, and work on the autochrome once they're asleep.... you don't need to sleep, do you?!

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Shaz ,

I will try to help your english with tarzan style

Your dyes costs are exciting. I looked to Sigma and costs too much money and 1 red dye comes in 5 grams , 200 euros .

Please list your dyes code numbers , source company and their prices

Thank you ,

Umut

 

[holmburgers]

Sigma Aldrich has absurdly expensive, reagent grade dyes. Much cheaper options exist. For one, there are textile dyes and other industrial dyes. I think that Sigma is the most expensive option, and I've found several dyes on eBay for next to nothing.

 

[shaz]

I have a lot of chance that you understand me Holmburgers. Thank you for all.

Umut :

Dead Link Removed

Shaz

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Shaz ,

Thank you , excellent site.

You can search in that site with below listed companies for dyes :
ACSIMMUNE Antibody Shop Avanti Cygnus Technologies DIFCO EDGE BIOS EY LAB MERCK PANREAC
PolySciences PROLABO Prospec RAL Reagecon Research Organics SEIKAGAKU SERVA WORTHINGTON
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By this way , We understand you but You dont understand us.

Let me try to explain my older post.

You have screen.

I say MAKE A ANOTHER GLASS WITH BW EMULSION.

MAKE YOUR SCREEN GLASS KISS WITH EMULSION GLASS.

THAN TAKE THE PICTURE

THAN

DEVELOP THE EMULSION GLASS
AND KEEP THE EMULSION GLASS

NOW YOU CAN MAKE ANOTHER EMULSION GLASS FOR KISS

THIS

YOU CAN PRODUCE HUNDREDS OF EMULSION GLASS BUT SINGLE SCREEN GLASS

IT IS CHEAPER SHAZCHROME.

YOU CAN BUY AEROSOL SPRAY EMULSION FROM ENGLAND

Best ,

Umut

 

[shaz]

Hi,

I think that i have understand your message.... Here you speak about BW emulsion....ok i know that you can buy this emulsion = ADOX for example.

BUT,

With autochrome you need a sensitized emulsion.
Me too, i'm gone try to explain to you :

I want to make a autochrome...but there's a lot of thing that will be difficult to realize. I have to find solutions that approch the original recipe.
When you see the Frederic Mocellin autochrome, it looks like autochrome and nevertheless it's really different of Louis Lumière in the process.

THEN,

I want to make something "like" autochrome, but i know that it's impossible for me to make the exactly recipe like Louis Lumière in my bathroom .

Best

Shaz

 

[holmburgers]

And having a single reseau makes things tricky because of a) registration and b) display. Mainly display is the problem; you'll have to use the same reseau to look at every one of your umutchromes!

And yes, panchromatic liquid emulsions are the problem.. they don't exist. If I had all the time in the world, I would figure out a method to panchromatize liquid emulsions... and someday I hope to. There are enough formulas available to begin testing.

 

[shaz]

Hello Holmburgers,

If you want, i can try to tranlate the method of Louis Lumière...there is just one problem , we have to found a remplacement for the "Orthochrome T" (Kodak) .
There must be something else.

Shaz

 

[Photo Engineer]

You can make any emulsion panchromatic. It is not difficult, just expensive!

PE

 

[holmburgers]

PE, do you ever hunt eBay or lab closeouts for cheap(er) dyes that might be suitable for sensitizing? If you were to make a comprehensive list of useful & practical sensitizers, about how long would it be??

Shaz, I'd love to hear Mssr. Lumiere's method. What is Orthochrome T though? A dye?

 

[shaz]

Do you know where we can find "Orthochrome T" ?
When I see the recipe , i find this very difficult.
Can you tell us how you will do if someone ask you PE ?

Shaz

 

[shaz]

Yes Holmburgers...Orthochrome T is the dye for the panchromatic emulsion. Kodak produce this dye.... I've send a mail to Kodak, to ask them Orthochrome T, but they never answer me . One of the reason why it is impossible to make like the original .
I forget the Lavedrine book where i work...tomorrow i will try to translate it

Shaz

 

[shaz]

Again one thing...it's like the "vert solide nouveau 3B" called too "Bleu Flexo 810", made by BASF. If someone work with BASF on the forum, perhaps he will sale us a little bit .

Shaz