Any successful attempts at developing Kodachrome at home?

[Chrstphrlee]

Good luck Dimas. I'm rooting for you. If you don't try, you'll never know.

 

[Dimas]

I also recall that he reckoned that it would cost about $200 per film to process - and that was after he'd spent many thousands getting to the point where he could process it at all. Though that might have been AUS$ and not US$.

That is a massive investment just to get the process running! Strangely enough, though, I've tried searching and I can't seem to find any actual results or images from his experiments anywhere online. You'd think there would be scans everywhere after spending thousands of dollars.

 

[Dimas]

Good luck Dimas. I'm rooting for you. If you don't try, you'll never know.

Thanks a lot for the kind words and the encouragement! "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" — that's the mindset I'm going with. I'll do my best!

 

[Dimas]

Sounds like classic gatekeeping. If he already figured it out, why be so stingy with the notes?

 

[Dimas]

I actually found some results from a guy online (piratelogystudios), but there’s very little out there. Looking at his tests, it's pretty obvious he's having major issues with the First Developer (FD) and the overall color balance.

Based on the literature I've been reading, I'd guess there are two main reasons for this:

• He hasn't figured out the precise timings for the optical flashing (re-exposure) steps.
• The couplers he's using are partially washing out of the emulsion because their molecules are too "light" (lacking sufficient molecular ballast). But that's just an educated guess.

By the way, I found a really interesting detail in the patent. It states that each color developer actually contains an additional developing agent, like Phenidone or an Aminophenol. While it helps to further develop the layers, its main purpose is to essentially "pave the way" for the CD (Color Developer) molecule to reach the coupler more effectively (acting as an electron transfer agent).

 

[koraks]

Sounds like classic gatekeeping. If he already figured it out, why be so stingy with the notes?

I'd take what he says there at face value: after mucking about with it for a long time, he realized there were so many other things he could do. I know the feeling; some endeavors seem tantalizing, you spend a lot of time on it and at some point you realize that what you're after is perhaps not even really in there to begin with. Then if someone else comes along, one may be rather hesitant to bring the new kids up to speed - after all, if you've decided to walk away from something, why would you go back and spend more time with it?

Moreover, if it were gatekeeping, what's behind the gate that's supposedly so precious? He didn't pursue it further, it seems.

So no, I don't think it's gatekeeping. I think he just rearranged priorities and doesn't identify as an interactive encyclopedia. That may be disappointing if you're looking for one, but hardly something we can blame him for.

Let's cut the guy some slack and assume he was just being honest.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'd take what he says there at face value...

Let's cut the guy some slack..

Good grief; I should say so!

 

[Pieter12]

What is the point if there is little or no Kodachrome film available? Just to process a handful of rolls?

 

[BurntOutElectronics]

The guy on here from Australia who figured out how to do it was Stephen (Steven?) Frizza. He hasn't been on here or on his social media for ages, so I don't know what's going on with him. He ran a commercial photo lab in Sydney for a while and so had the tools and facilities to try and do it. He was also independently wealthy.

He was using mostly original kodachrome chemistry (which came in tins mind you right to the very end) with an improvised yellow using the older 1930's patents.

The issue today is expense, you can have chemical companies manufacture the colour couplers but be prepared to spend thousands of dollars in any currency. nobody else needs them so you're asking a big company to make a small amount of an otherwise useless chemical times three!

This is why Adrian takes a far more artistic route, using all sorts of novel materials as couplers to form rather amazing images. Kodachrome is a great medium for this, as you can add any coupler you like within reason. the combination of different couplers and colour developers is damn near endless when you're in that deep.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have a few old undeveloped rolls sitting around. I’m not expecting a miracle, but I’m curious to see if any images can still be salvaged from them before throwing them out.

From a purely practical point of view, wouldn't developing these already exposed rolls as B&W negatives be more effective in salvaging the images than trying to reinvent the original complicated colour process? In any case, colour processing is unlikely to render the colours as intended by the original process.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

BTW you might have already seen this: https://eng.vsco.co/reviving-kodachrome/

They write: "After months and months of iterations in our experiments and roll after roll of Kodachrome developing, we finally achieved results for Kodachrome that we were proud of. We achieved acceptable film density (Dmin and Dmax), acceptable overall color balance, and consistent results on the same batch of film."

Unfortunately but unsuprisingly, they have not revealed the details of their process other than what is shown in this pic.

 

[Agulliver]

I honestly think that Mr. Frizza achieved his goal of processing Kodachrome and moved on. Having proved the point to himself and the photography community, he simply walked away from it. And the reason he doesn't publish his methods and research is because he doesn't want hundreds of people asking him about it.

 

[Dimas]

I'd take what he says there at face value: after mucking about with it for a long time, he realized there were so many other things he could do. I know the feeling; some endeavors seem tantalizing, you spend a lot of time on it and at some point you realize that what you're after is perhaps not even really in there to begin with. Then if someone else comes along, one may be rather hesitant to bring the new kids up to speed - after all, if you've decided to walk away from something, why would you go back and spend more time with it?

Moreover, if it were gatekeeping, what's behind the gate that's supposedly so precious? He didn't pursue it further, it seems.

So no, I don't think it's gatekeeping. I think he just rearranged priorities and doesn't identify as an interactive encyclopedia. That may be disappointing if you're looking for one, but hardly something we can blame him for.

Let's cut the guy some slack and assume he was just being honest.

That’s a very fair point, and you're probably right. Burnout is a real thing, especially after pouring so much time and money into such a frustrating process. I totally get wanting to just close that chapter and move on.
I guess I was just a bit frustrated by the lack of available data out there, but I shouldn't judge him for it. Let's leave him be and get back to the chemistry!

 

[Dimas]

What is the point if there is little or no Kodachrome film available? Just to process a handful of rolls?

Exactly. It's all about reverse engineering the process first. And once the chemistry is cracked, the ultimate goal would be to actually manufacture a custom film with a similar structure from scratch.

 

[koraks]

I guess I was just a bit frustrated by the lack of available data out there

Likewise very understandable!
Btw, the results I've seen so far, which are indeed few and far between, I found academically interesting, but nowhere near what I associate with Kodachrome as it looked when it was being used a lot and processed at its common industrial scale. This, to me, suggests that while it's feasible to get color images of some sort in a DIY process, it's probably exceedingly challenging and time-consuming (potentially costly, too) to achieve a level of color fidelity that approximates the glory days. There's the complicating factor that the film is all expired, some badly so, and subject to often unknown and potentially adverse storage conditions even if you can get hold of it. I think this combination of challenges is what has made others ultimately throw in the towel - even if you get it to work well, you're still facing a dwindling supply of variable quality. It all looks like an uphill battle to me.

 

[Dimas]

Likewise very understandable!
Btw, the results I've seen so far, which are indeed few and far between, I found academically interesting, but nowhere near what I associate with Kodachrome as it looked when it was being used a lot and processed at its common industrial scale. This, to me, suggests that while it's feasible to get color images of some sort in a DIY process, it's probably exceedingly challenging and time-consuming (potentially costly, too) to achieve a level of color fidelity that approximates the glory days. There's the complicating factor that the film is all expired, some badly so, and subject to often unknown and potentially adverse storage conditions even if you can get hold of it. I think this combination of challenges is what has made others ultimately throw in the towel - even if you get it to work well, you're still facing a dwindling supply of variable quality. It all looks like an uphill battle to me.

You hit the nail on the head. Even with a perfect, lab-standard process, 20-year-old expired film will never give us those classic "glory days" colors. It is absolutely an uphill battle.
But honestly, that just reinforces my previous point. If the goal is true Kodachrome color fidelity, fighting with degraded, unpredictable expired stock is a dead end. The only real way to eventually achieve that level of quality again is to figure out the chemistry first, and then step up to coating fresh, custom film.

 

[Dimas]

He was using mostly original kodachrome chemistry (which came in tins mind you right to the very end) with an improvised yellow using the older 1930's patents.

The issue today is expense, you can have chemical companies manufacture the colour couplers but be prepared to spend thousands of dollars in any currency. nobody else needs them so you're asking a big company to make a small amount of an otherwise useless chemical times three!

This is why Adrian takes a far more artistic route, using all sorts of novel materials as couplers to form rather amazing images. Kodachrome is a great medium for this, as you can add any coupler you like within reason. the combination of different couplers and colour developers is damn near endless when you're in that deep.

Yes, I am actually familiar with Adrian's work, and it is a huge inspiration to me! His artistic approach to using alternative couplers is exactly what convinced me that this path is worth pursuing.
You are completely right about the cost issue—ordering custom synthesis for the original OEM chemicals is a financial dead end. But Adrian's work proves that you don't have to be tied down to the original formulas. Treating Kodachrome as a multi-layer canvas and plugging in existing, available couplers turns a rigid industrial process into an amazing field for photo engineering and artistic expression. That is exactly the direction I want to explore.

 

[Dimas]

From a purely practical point of view, wouldn't developing these already exposed rolls as B&W negatives be more effective in salvaging the images than trying to reinvent the original complicated colour process? In any case, colour processing is unlikely to render the colours as intended by the original process.

Practically speaking, yes. But I have plenty of B&W negatives already! I'm not looking to just play it safe and "salvage" them. You have to keep the spirit of adventure alive and sing serenades under windows sometimes!

 

[Dimas]

BTW you might have already seen this: https://eng.vsco.co/reviving-kodachrome/

They write: "After months and months of iterations in our experiments and roll after roll of Kodachrome developing, we finally achieved results for Kodachrome that we were proud of. We achieved acceptable film density (Dmin and Dmax), acceptable overall color balance, and consistent results on the same batch of film."

Unfortunately but unsuprisingly, they have not revealed the details of their process other than what is shown in this pic.

Yeah, I've seen that one! It really is a wonderful result, but it's a shame they kept all the actual details to themselves.

I also highly suspect they are exaggerating a bit about the "ten years of scientific work" just to make it sound more epic, but oh well! It is what it is.