Another Kodak Vision3 remjet film thread

brbo · Oct 28, 2022

I use proper remjet prebath at room temp. for 1 min (3 inversions at the start). When I pour it out it is still crystal clear, no remjet whatsoever suspended in the prebath solution. Then I use a number of quick cold water washes (well, not really a wash, just vigorous shaking) to get rid of as much of remjet as possible. After development there is still a faint film of remjet present on the base which is easily removed with a microfiber cloth. I have no problem with colours, but ECN film developed in ECN-2 developer will be lower in contrast and saturation.

Cholentpot · Oct 28, 2022

brbo said:
I use proper remjet prebath at room temp. for 1 min (3 inversions at the start). When I pour it out it is still crystal clear, no remjet whatsoever suspended in the prebath solution. Then I use a number of quick cold water washes (well, not really a wash, just vigorous shaking) to get rid of as much of remjet as possible. After development there is still a faint film of remjet present on the base which is easily removed with a microfiber cloth. I have no problem with colours, but ECN film developed in ECN-2 developer will be lower in contrast and saturation.

Getting hold of a prebath is a bit of a issue it seems.

Does the cold water agitation pour out black?

brbo · Oct 28, 2022

Black, of course.

Cholentpot · Oct 28, 2022

brbo said:
Black, of course.

If doing the remjet removal after the dev and blix does the dev pour off black?

brbo · Oct 28, 2022

Yes, it’s pretty dark with Kodak Vision films, totally black with Fuji Eterna where pretty much all of the remjet comes off. You definitely need to filter the developer afterwards if you don’t remove remjet before developing.

Cholentpot · Oct 28, 2022

brbo said:
Yes, it’s pretty dark with Kodak Vision films, totally black with Fuji Eterna where pretty much all of the remjet comes off. You definitely need to filter the developer afterwards if you don’t remove remjet before developing.

Conclusion for me. When using a reusable kit it may be a better idea to remove the REMJET beforehand. Results might not be as nice but you won't mess up your chemistry. If using one shot then it's worth doing it after.

I too have noticed that Eterna remjet comes right off with no issue.

Now I wonder if DWC vs Baking Soda pre development will make a color shift difference.

brbo · Oct 28, 2022

Firstly, I’d check that “fact” of pre-removal affecting colour in a more controlled test.

Cholentpot · Oct 28, 2022

brbo said:
Firstly, I’d check that “fact” of pre-removal affecting colour in a more controlled test.

Sure. A factor might be that DWC may not affect the color as much as baking soda or washing soda.

Joel_L · Oct 29, 2022

I'm going to revisit the remove remjet first method. Keeping in mind that I do see better results when removing after.

Going on the thought that perhaps all that washing before development is saturating the emulsion and interfering with the developer, I did the DWC as I would after the process and washed using my Jobo bubbler.
This time, I set the tank upside down in my film drier and will let it sit there for 90 minutes ( my regular film drying time ). Then I will run it through the processing cycle normally.

I will post results when done.

Joel_L · Oct 29, 2022

I shot two rolls of film. First one I processed by removing the remjet first. Results were consistent with what I got early on, muddy looking negatives, really grainy and poor images with streaks and splotches. If you need to reuse the chemistry, I think something milder like the baking soda or soda ash for a little more kick. Seems you will still get remjet in your chemicals.

I used the same camera set to auto, both rolls were about 30 minutes apart. Each got process in a fresh mixed batch of chemistry. Only difference was DWC first for one and last for the other.

Attached are what I got, what's what should be apparent.

Cholentpot · Oct 29, 2022

Joel_L said:
I shot two rolls of film. First one I processed by removing the remjet first. Results were consistent with what I got early on, muddy looking negatives, really grainy and poor images with streaks and splotches. If you need to reuse the chemistry, I think something milder like the baking soda or soda ash for a little more kick. Seems you will still get remjet in your chemicals.

I used the same camera set to auto, both rolls were about 30 minutes apart. Each got process in a fresh mixed batch of chemistry. Only difference was DWC first for one and last for the other.

Attached are what I got, what's what should be apparent.

View attachment 320304 View attachment 320305 View attachment 320306

Yikes.

Looks like I'll be sticking to baking soda. I've found the Borax or washing soda gives a grainier look. I don't really get remjet in my chemistry using baking soda. Most of it clears off on the pre bath and whatever is left gets scrubbed off after the rinse before the stab. Whatever ends up in the chemistry doesn't seem to affect the future rolls.

Sonynolta User · Oct 30, 2022

Joel_L said:
I shot two rolls of film. First one I processed by removing the remjet first. Results were consistent with what I got early on, muddy looking negatives, really grainy and poor images with streaks and splotches. If you need to reuse the chemistry, I think something milder like the baking soda or soda ash for a little more kick. Seems you will still get remjet in your chemicals.

I used the same camera set to auto, both rolls were about 30 minutes apart. Each got process in a fresh mixed batch of chemistry. Only difference was DWC first for one and last for the other.

Attached are what I got, what's what should be apparent.

I would say the DWC super-activates the developer (or something like that). Looks way over developed to me. Or it really amps up the orange base. I've been using Kodak's formula with Lye, and then several washes before the dev. Still needs a mild cleaning at the end.

Does anyone use a Jobo lift and worry about Remjet contamination in the lift's plumbing?

Joel_L · Oct 30, 2022

I use a jobo lift and have not had any issue. I mostly run C-41 and E6. I have done some E6 since playing with this Vision 3 film, and haven't see anything odd. Might be interesting to run a swab down the lift and see what comes out.

Sonynolta User · Oct 31, 2022

Joel_L said:
I use a jobo lift and have not had any issue. I mostly run C-41 and E6. I have done some E6 since playing with this Vision 3 film, and haven't see anything odd. Might be interesting to run a swab down the lift and see what comes out.

Thanks- I do my deremjet first in my Jobo tank, with a cork in the gear lid by Kodak lye prebath first, then 3 martini shaker rinses. I also dump my chems used as one-shot. So I am hoping any remjet makes it down the drain. I do see just a very slight bit of darkening when I clean my tank & lid with wetwipes. I use stainless reels, they seem to clean easier than the plastic. And for me, easier to load.

Joel_L · Nov 1, 2022

When I relooked at the image with the ball in the markers, it struck me as being pretty dull. I rescanned it and also scanned a slightly different image from the same roll using Silverfast and Vuescan. For Silverfast I use a filter I made for the Vision 3 film. In Vuescan I used the built-in Vericolor III Pro filter. I kind of like the Viewscan version better ( VS in the file name ) though I think it is over saturated. In any case, all three of these are better than the one I posted above, not sure what I missed.

I also added an image shot with Ektar just for comparison.

koraks · Nov 1, 2022

Joel_L said:
I also added an image shot with Ektar just for comparison.

The Ektar shot looks of remarkably low saturation and appears to have a cyan cast. It looks wildly different from how my Ektar looks if I print it on Crystal Archive. It's a matter of taste, of course, but as a comparison, it may throw people off a bit because it's not really representative for what the film does in reality.

Joel_L · Nov 1, 2022

Here's the Ektar shot with a little more saturation. Looks better.

koraks · Nov 1, 2022

Yeah..well, there's still the cyan cast.

MattKing · Nov 1, 2022

koraks said:
Yeah..well, there's still the cyan cast.

And the cyan cast increases as one moves from bottom left to top right.
With some moderately heavy tweaking:

Joel_L · Nov 1, 2022

Don't know why the Ektar would have the cyan cast, standard process done properly. Wonder if something else is going on. Maybe I should stop putting the cyan dye in my stabilizer.

MattKing · Nov 1, 2022

It isn't necessarily the film that has the cyan cast. It is just as likely to be the digitization that imparts it.

Joel_L · Nov 2, 2022

That could be, I have been using my V700 to do the scans, I'll see if I can tray something else or tweak the scanner settings. But I also need to come up with a good baseline to calibrate against.

koraks · Nov 2, 2022

Joel_L said:
But I also need to come up with a good baseline to calibrate against.

You could try to acquire an IT8 calibration target and profile your scanner. That's pretty much the only thing that'll help.

Don't beat yourself up over it; scanning is tricky, especially when it comes to getting accurate colors off of C41 stock.

Joel_L · Nov 2, 2022

I do have an IT8 target, one of the serialized ones from Silverfast. I do notice that slides seem to scan much better.

I think I do get results that are acceptable, in the end, if there is an image that is important to me, it will get extra time tweaking.

Joel_L · Nov 2, 2022

I went out and took the same pic with my 5D4, now the cyan cast is very apparent and I have something I can look at side by side.

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