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Yes, mind telling us what brand of driveway cleaner?
What is the pH of your driveway cleaner solution? I am reading Kodak ECN-2 instructions, says to adjust pH of pre-bath to 10.2. I wonder if a solution of sodium bicarbonate with a tiny amount of NaOH added to bring up pH?
Yes, mind telling us what brand of driveway cleaner?
When I mix it 10ml to 500ml of water it's around 11.8
I tried sodium carbonate ( soda ash, probably near what your mix would be ) which dissolved the remjet binder fine, just didn't wash it away well.
I'm using something called super clean which I can get at my local auto parts store. I would expect others would also work well.
Vision3/C-41 and the OP suggested developing at 106ºF (following their kit instructions at 102ºF lead to underdevelopment)
In search of a fresh bulk roll color negative film I've been thinking about trying Vision3 film but I was always scared of the remjet. This thread inspired me to give it a go!
I picked up a few rolls of Kodak Vision 250D and some driveway cleaner from Home Depot (Zep brand?) and got to work. I shot a test roll then developed it as usual in C-41 at 100ºF (3:15 dev, 6:30 bleach, 6:30 fix, wash for 5:00) and then dunked the reel in 1000ml of driveway cleaner remjet remover solution mixed 1:50 (20ml->1000ml water). Let it sit for 30s, then violently agitated, dumped it out, repeated, and then did a running water wash for another 5 minutes. I was really surprised at how well the cleaner worked! The film was spotless aside from some hard water drying marks because I didn't bother to mix up a final rinse.
Even though I scan everything the RA-4 darkroom print is always my end goal, and it's also a good check on process (bad film dev=bad prints). I printed the contact sheet and balanced it as well as I could for the color checker shots (in studio, daylight windows bracketed at ISO 125, 250, 500, box speed 250 seemed correct). The film definitely has some crossover, magenta/red shadows and green/cyan highlights. Appears to me the film was under temp. I went ahead and printed a portrait to confirm, and though the results aren't horrible I am not satisfied. I did some googling and there's a Flickr thread from a few years ago regarding Vision3/C-41 and the OP suggested developing at 106ºF (following their kit instructions at 102ºF lead to underdevelopment). I'm going to run through a few more rolls and try to develop at 103ºF, 104ºF, and 105ºF. Hopefully from there I'll be able to narrow down a proper temperature.
One thing to note, though the driveway cleaner cleared the remjet from the film there was still a bit of debris left on my reels and in my tanks. Almost like a very fine dust. Not much, and I highly doubt it will mess anything up in the future but I'll probably end up dedicating one tank and one set of reels to remjet films if I continue this long term.
One thing to note, though the driveway cleaner cleared the remjet from the film there was still a bit of debris left on my reels and in my tanks. Almost like a very fine dust. Not much, and I highly doubt it will mess anything up in the future but I'll probably end up dedicating one tank and one set of reels to remjet films if I continue this long term.
There's a couple of things you could play with:
* Reduce temperature
* Shorten development
* Adjust pH downward
* Dilute developer
In search of a fresh bulk roll color negative film I've been thinking about trying Vision3 film but I was always scared of the remjet. This thread inspired me to give it a go!
I picked up a few rolls of Kodak Vision 250D and some driveway cleaner from Home Depot (Zep brand?) and got to work. I shot a test roll then developed it as usual in C-41 at 100ºF (3:15 dev, 6:30 bleach, 6:30 fix, wash for 5:00) and then dunked the reel in 1000ml of driveway cleaner remjet remover solution mixed 1:50 (20ml->1000ml water). Let it sit for 30s, then violently agitated, dumped it out, repeated, and then did a running water wash for another 5 minutes. I was really surprised at how well the cleaner worked! The film was spotless aside from some hard water drying marks because I didn't bother to mix up a final rinse.
Even though I scan everything the RA-4 darkroom print is always my end goal, and it's also a good check on process (bad film dev=bad prints). I printed the contact sheet and balanced it as well as I could for the color checker shots (in studio, daylight windows bracketed at ISO 125, 250, 500, box speed 250 seemed correct). The film definitely has some crossover, magenta/red shadows and green/cyan highlights. Appears to me the film was under temp. I went ahead and printed a portrait to confirm, and though the results aren't horrible I am not satisfied. I did some googling and there's a Flickr thread from a few years ago regarding Vision3/C-41 and the OP suggested developing at 106ºF (following their kit instructions at 102ºF lead to underdevelopment). I'm going to run through a few more rolls and try to develop at 103ºF, 104ºF, and 105ºF. Hopefully from there I'll be able to narrow down a proper temperature.
One thing to note, though the driveway cleaner cleared the remjet from the film there was still a bit of debris left on my reels and in my tanks. Almost like a very fine dust. Not much, and I highly doubt it will mess anything up in the future but I'll probably end up dedicating one tank and one set of reels to remjet films if I continue this long term.
I remember from the days many years ago when I printed colour negatives on Ektacolor 37 RC and Ektacolor 74 RC paper that touching a print, wet or dry, with even the slightest trace of acetic acid on the fingers would cause pink fingerprints on the print. I don't know if it would affect colour negative materials.If there is, I can't recall; it's been a while since I delved into the chemistry for this. I do recall there was a possible problem with dichroic fog with certain combinations, but I really don't recall, sorry.
@brbo those look great, nice job!
@mshchem I'm using an LPL 4500 with the Heiland LED unit
Slightly off topic, but it’s relevant so bear with me. How's the Heiland head work for RA-4 printing? I don't recall hearing from anyone who is using these nice heads for color. I know folks love these for VC black and white.
The Vision3 stocks are a phenomenal line of films once one can effectively deal with the remjet during processing. I've gone through several iterations of remjet handling as I've honed my ECN-2 processing:
1. No remjet-prebath (16mm only) with mechanical removal in trays at the end of the process. Messy -- dense remjet can be easily embedded into the emulsion at this stage. Do not attempt with full loads of 35mm!
2. Sodium Bicarbonate pre-bath. Better, but still some residual emulsion contamination is possible.
3. Kodak's remjet pre-bath formula. Extremely effective AND re-usable, but does still require a post-process wipe to remove the last 1% of residue.
Switching to a 'real' pre-bath was a revelation as the remjet is only softened, not removed in the pre-bath. The still clean pre-bath solution returned to it's container after a 15-20 second soak and a subsequent water wash or two does the actual removal. The high concentration of neutral sulfate in the pre-bath prevents the remjet layer from immediately disintegrating into the solution.
I have extremely limited experience cross-processing ECN-2 stocks in C-41, but you can expect a slight speed boost, higher contrast, and slightly funkier colors. I'd recommend giving ECN-2 processing a try to see which you prefer.
Vision3 500T w/ 85B filter in daylight, ECN-2
View attachment 314134
I don't really understand why this is necessary, it clearly is since the Cine-Still films which have it removed show halation on things like neon signs.
So I decided to give my own try at Vision film. As a test I ordered a couple rolls of 50D ( I would prefer 250D for my uses but 50D was what I could get at the moment ). My first test was to remove the remjet. For this I clipped the leader off and recut the film so I could load it later.
I first tried the standard baking soda and water - this worked OK but left patches that needed to be rubbed off.
I thought about this a bit and decided to try good old driveway cleaner/degreaser. My only rational was something alkaline and I have used this on photo resist when I used to make my own PC boards.
I mixed 10ml of super clean in 500ml of water. This completely cleared the remjet without having to rub any residue off. I had no idea what it might do to the emulsion.
I put a roll through my camera loaded the film into my Jobo 1510 tank. I filled it with 250ml of the solution, let it soak for a minute, shook it hard for a minute, let it rotate for a minute and drained it. At this point I left it rotating on the processor and did two more fills ( @125ml ) for a minute each. This was followed by 4 water fills and dumps about a minute each. water was pretty clear after the second dump. I then processed normally per C41 process.
I looked at the film before dumping it in the stabilizer and saw no signs of remjet. After stabilizing, hung to dry.
Attached are some samples of the results, I am pleased, pleased enough I ordered a 400ft roll of 250D from Kodak ( along with 400ft of Ektachrome 100D ), both in stock.
For me, the remjet did not prove to be much of a problem. The 10ml in 500ml seemed pretty strong, I might reduce this to 5 in 500 and play with how much time film spends in it.
View attachment 314117View attachment 314118View attachment 314119
Thank you for your reply.I think that color films have anti-halation measures built into them as well. Black & white films also do, but generally not in 35mm format; on 120 and sheet film some kind of anti-halation dye is virtually always present.
Btw, the description you gave of the remjet processor matches the publicly available Kodak document that describes ECN-2 processing.
I'm not sure I agree with your statement that a continuous process would produce different results from a batch process as you'd run at home. Given good parameter control and fresh, one-shot or otherwise properly replenished developer, the results really should be identical. With C41 as well as E6, this is within range of an amateur working at home; I don't see how this would be different for ECN-2.
If the reason that rem-jet is used rather than dyes on motion picture stocks is for its lubrication and anti-static properties then why is it not also used on 5222 stock?
I have noticed that roll films tend to release dyes when processed more than 35 mm; do you know the reason for this?
So I decided to give my own try at Vision film. As a test I ordered a couple rolls of 50D ( I would prefer 250D for my uses but 50D was what I could get at the moment ). My first test was to remove the remjet. For this I clipped the leader off and recut the film so I could load it later.
I first tried the standard baking soda and water - this worked OK but left patches that needed to be rubbed off.
I thought about this a bit and decided to try good old driveway cleaner/degreaser. My only rational was something alkaline and I have used this on photo resist when I used to make my own PC boards.
I mixed 10ml of super clean in 500ml of water. This completely cleared the remjet without having to rub any residue off. I had no idea what it might do to the emulsion.
I put a roll through my camera loaded the film into my Jobo 1510 tank. I filled it with 250ml of the solution, let it soak for a minute, shook it hard for a minute, let it rotate for a minute and drained it. At this point I left it rotating on the processor and did two more fills ( @125ml ) for a minute each. This was followed by 4 water fills and dumps about a minute each. water was pretty clear after the second dump. I then processed normally per C41 process.
I looked at the film before dumping it in the stabilizer and saw no signs of remjet. After stabilizing, hung to dry.
Attached are some samples of the results, I am pleased, pleased enough I ordered a 400ft roll of 250D from Kodak ( along with 400ft of Ektachrome 100D ), both in stock.
For me, the remjet did not prove to be much of a problem. The 10ml in 500ml seemed pretty strong, I might reduce this to 5 in 500 and play with how much time film spends in it.
View attachment 314117View attachment 314118View attachment 314119
If the reason that rem-jet is used rather than dyes on motion picture stocks is for its lubrication and anti-static properties then why is it not also used on 5222 stock?
I have noticed that roll films tend to release dyes when processed more than 35 mm; do you know the reason for this?
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