Adox HR-50 developed in Caffenol LC+C looks like London fog?

[John Wiegerink]

I have never tried any of the Caffenol developers until tonight. I decided to try Caffenol LC+C on a partial roll of HR-50. While the images look very good and very sharp the negatives have a lot of base fog. I'm pretty sure I can print through this, but was just wondering if this was normal or not. Also, I didn't have Folger's crystals and just used my stores cheap house brand instant coffee. I don't think that would cause the fog, but you never know. Or at least I never know since this is my first try. Do other folks here get pretty heavy base fog with Caffenol?

 

[koraks]

Yeah. It's a bit like toning cyanotypes etc. in coffee - the coffee stains the base. It's the same as your dentist complaining about "sir you must be drinking a lot of coffee, I'll ask my assistant to make an appointment with you to clean the staining a little" LOL.

Caffenol is effectively a staining developer in the 'bad' sense of the word: it adds an overall stain, but not an image-wise stain. So it's kind of the opposite of e.g. Pyrocat.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yeah. It's a bit like toning cyanotypes etc. in coffee - the coffee stains the base. It's the same as your dentist complaining about "sir you must be drinking a lot of coffee, I'll ask my assistant to make an appointment with you to clean the staining a little" LOL.

Caffenol is effectively a staining developer in the 'bad' sense of the word: it adds an overall stain, but not an image-wise stain. So it's kind of the opposite of e.g. Pyrocat.

Koraks,
I figured it would discolor the negatives some, but didn't think the stain would be this heavy. I'm on my way to the cottage and the negatives are left down home or I'd show them. When I get back down home I'm going to try this again, but I might try a touch of KBr in the next batch to see if it makes a difference.

 

[koraks]

I don't expect bromide to do anything about this since the staining is likely just the coffee painting the gelatin, not so much silver fogging. Although the latter can also play a part of course. In that case KBr will help tone it down a little.

Btw, I have to admit I'm kind of the wrong audience for this; I never quite understood the attraction of these coffee developers. The way I see it they're fairly inefficient and the whole eco-story to surround them sounds fishy to me in the light of the quantity of instant coffee that's needed and the overall impact that has over its product life cycle. From a technical viewpoint it's very obvious that there are plenty of superior alternatives, many of which are very cost-effective and sometimes even relatively ecologically benign (instant Mytol etc.)

 

[John Wiegerink]

I don't expect bromide to do anything about this since the staining is likely just the coffee painting the gelatin, not so much silver fogging. Although the latter can also play a part of course. In that case KBr will help tone it down a little.

Btw, I have to admit I'm kind of the wrong audience for this; I never quite understood the attraction of these coffee developers. The way I see it they're fairly inefficient and the whole eco-story to surround them sounds fishy to me in the light of the quantity of instant coffee that's needed and the overall impact that has over its product life cycle. From a technical viewpoint it's very obvious that there are plenty of superior alternatives, many of which are very cost-effective and sometimes even relatively ecologically benign (instant Mytol etc.)

I probably know less than you do when it comes to Caffenol developers. I would not have even tried a coffee style developer for HR-50, but all my chemical for developer making are at the cottage and I was down home. My grocery store had what I needed so I had to try it. I only tried this because I had just repaired a Minolta 7s rangefinder and wanted to see if it was working properly. I figured the addition of KBr would at least let me know if it was all stain or not. The funny thing about all of this is that while looking through my cabinet to see if I had any KBr down home I stumbled on a half bottle of Adox Rodinal that I forgot to bring North to the cottage. I could have used that with the HR-50 since I know the two go together very well.

 

[npl]

Never heard of the "LC+C" variant of caffenol, would you share the recipe ?

 

[John Wiegerink]

Never heard of the "LC+C" variant of caffenol, would you share the recipe ?

This is Donald Qualls recipe:
Caffenol LC+C (speed enhancing low contrast microfilm developer)

8 oz Water
4 tsp (level) Arm & Hammer Washing Soda
.26 g (4 grain) Ascorbic acid or erythorbic acid (supplement or technical, 97%)
2 tsp (slightly rounded) Folger's Coffee Crystals

 

[koraks]

My grocery store had what I needed so I had to try it.

That's a fine reason in my book!

 

[npl]

This is Donald Qualls recipe:
Caffenol LC+C (speed enhancing low contrast microfilm developer)

8 oz Water
4 tsp (level) Arm & Hammer Washing Soda
.26 g (4 grain) Ascorbic acid or erythorbic acid (supplement or technical, 97%)
2 tsp (slightly rounded) Folger's Coffee Crystals

Thanks.

There is fogging with Caffenol-C even with ISO 100 films, that's why the CH variant is IMO the best starting point for any regular films. It's C-C with 1g Kbr added :

Caffenol C-H

1000 ml water
54g washing soda
16g ascorbic acid
1g Kbr
40g instant coffee

20°c, standard agitation.

Now if my math is correct, and assuming 1 tsp = 5g, LC+C is :

1000ml water
84,5g washing soda
1g ascorbic acid
-
42,3g instant coffee

I assume the developing time was quite long with your roll. Coupled with the absence of Kbr, the high level of fog doesn't surprise me.

To keep CC-H compatible with "stuff I can find in the grocery store", Kbr can be replaced with 10 time the amount of iodized salt. It's not as effective but good enough.

You mentionned testing a new repaired camera. A damaged lens could also be responsible for the "london fog", I've seen it happen with an old camera where other variables were out (fresh roll, commercial developer, bright daylight). To be sure we're not blaming the developer I'd shoot an other roll and develop it in rodinal or hc110.

 

[pentaxuser]

You could always try Sam Spade's "Java" recipe. It seemed to work well in The Maltese Falcon

pentaxuser