A blended ferrocyanide print process

[Andrew O'Neill]

Are you sensitising the gelatin with Cyanotype chemistry, processing it as a ferroblend, then transferring it?

 

[BrendanOrner]

That's very cool! Please share pics of your print.

Are you making a tissue on Yupo the way it's done in Carbon transfer? And then sensitising, drying, exposing and developing as one would do in FerroBlend?

yep, I'll post some when I get something that is less experimental. (the first transfer attempt floated a little and I suddenly understood potential origins of cubism). Yes it was mostly following some of carbon transfer stuff Andy has posted. Tissue was on Yupo, sentized with a modified version of your sensitising agent (closer to traditional cyanotype...I'm Singapore working in a not-so-light-tight kitchen so fogging and humidity can be an issue). I usually apply the sensitizer in water via glass rod. Usually with ferroblend I think my exposures and development times are shorter than yours typically are although with the transfer I increased them because of diffusion and to ensure better polymerisation but yeah pretty much the same procedure. I did get a bit of yellow/brown staining and the blues became almost black.

 

[Jan de Jong]

Just my addition, trying to keep it simple for me, so made some "negatives" on normal office copy paper in the inkjet printer. Took a picture of a fish in the pet-shop, made it black and white and added some Emboss effect on the phone before printing it in draft mode on the paper. Then made it partially transparent with canola oil on the back side of the print. Exposure for this one was 15 minutes under the UV light. Just development with Raghu's developer. Cyanotype formula no additives just a bit more K-Ferri. I am using here very cheap water color paper. This depends from batch to batch but lately what they sell seems to work well again, no per-treatment this time. In this way paper negatives work well. You just need to ensure it is firmly against the coated paper, ie really against it.

Cheers Jan.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Nice one, Jan!

 

[NedL]

I like that one Jan. Sometimes a paper negative on plain old office paper can work really well!

 

[BrendanOrner]

I really like the texture on the scales and the fins and the tonality in the composition gives it depth

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Very nice!

 

[Jan de Jong]

Thank you all! I like that it works because it makes it so much easier to take a picture for making a print from for example my phone. I guess it will not be as detailed as printing on acetate, but still. I will try some other images in the next days.

 

[Jan de Jong]

Now that I can use normal paper as negative I looked for some interesting thing in the city today lunch time. The Luxembourg libary has an interesting wall, so I took an image and reversed it, again added some embossing, just to be sure to get some details. Paper made transparent with the Canola oil. Exposure 35 minutes.

my mix for the emulsion:
2 gr FAC 1.5 gr K-Ferri + 12 ml dest water.
I let the coated paper dry relative short 30 minutes then exposed 35 minutes.

development with the "FerroBlend" mix
2 gr Copper Sulfate, 10gr Sodium Citrate in 100ml.

for development brushed direct after development on the dry paper, repeated after a minute to ensure not dry spots. Left it for about 5 minutes rest. nice black formed
Rinsing with Citric acid in normal tap water. It all cleared nicely. Below the making of and the final result.
Looks all good, print almost perfect, except a few uneven coated spots on the sides and lacking some pressure at some points so a bit fuzzy.
I tried my best to get the color accurate in the picture, the contrast is really super black, lighter parts nice light also.

to be continued..

 

[Alan Townsend]

Yes, very nice prints. How did you apply the oil? Does it make the paper fragil? Did you dry it out before printing or did you use it wet and if printed wet does it make an oily surface on the print that needs to be cleaned off before processing? Sorry for all the questions.

 

[Jan de Jong]

Yes, very nice prints. How did you apply the oil? Does it make the paper fragil? Did you dry it out before printing or did you use it wet and if printed wet does it make an oily surface on the print that needs to be cleaned off before processing? Sorry for all the questions.

Hi Alan, I just printed the normal office paper in the inkjet, let that dry a bit, then put it on some tissue paper and take another piece of tissue paper and put some oil on that and then apply it slowly over backside of the print. You will see where you have put oil as the print from the other side becomes visible. After you have finished check it against the light to see if it all is what you want. Then I leave it some time like an hour and then take another piece of tissue paper and "polish" it clean of oil, just like you would shine your shoes more or less. Most of the oil will have been absorbed by the paper anyway. The oil makes the paper more rigid, it is not like water. After it is oiled it feels and sound more like a plastic sheet.
Because i am impatient I will make a print direct after. The ink seems not to mind about the oil and the front side oil if any does not cause effects on the cyanotype emulsion.
Just very important is good contact between the negative and the emulsion paper.

I just tried, not tests and it seems to work fine. For the FerroBlend it has a very linear response , so no special curves used. I am still tweaking it a bit to see if I can get full control on it.
For now I found that using the cyanotype coated paper in the next hours is better than leaving it a day.
I will try another time also some of the now used oiled negatives to see if they can still be used or age or loose transparency. For now that all looks ok.

 

[Jan de Jong]

After the massive number of reactions here I'd just like to share a little variation. It started while in the making of some further FerroBlend images, I brush the blend on in a tray which I then continue to use to rinse later. However I did not notice the tray still had water in it, so the fresh exposed print was a bit in the water. In any case the result of the diluted Blend on it was not bad. So the next day I then made some normal Cyanotype mix (for me normal) and after exposure put a diluted blend on that Cyanotype.

Effect :
- Retains the lighter parts of the exposure in detail in the pink-orange color, prevents bleaching and wash-off.
- The more exposed areas stay blue - dark blue.

My cyanotype emulsion
2gr FAC
1gr K-Ferri
12ml of dest Water.

"Developer - FerroBlend"
1 Part FerroBlend 4 parts water.
FerroBlend mix = 2gr Copper Sulfate + 10gr Sodium Citrate in 100ml of dest water.

The action of the FerroBlend is of course slower but progressing nicely, take again your 5-10 minutes and see the image change color.

Paper negative - inkjet on 80gr office paper oiled with Canola oil
exposure 30 mins under UV light.

Diluted Ferroblended print from living Lilac twig
Exposure : 50 minutes in full midday sun.
Note the beautiful colors that pass during development. The end result will have all the micro details. During drying the last purples will fade also to the light orange toning.

I think this variation use of the FerroBlend is very useful especially to retain the details in the leaves and flowers which would normally be lost in normal cyanotype. Plus I like the color also.

@Raghu Kuvempunagar I have noticed the FerroBlend stock solution getting slimy ie looks like some pseudo-polymerization. It can not be bacteria or mold, for that too much copper in the mix. Just wondering if you have seen that also?


Cheers Jan.

 

[Graham06]

I love that dandelion.

This isn't a complete suggestion, but I was wondering if two-colour images would be possible somehow. The images so far are split tone blue/orange monochrome images. What if you took a colour image, and made a two colour orange/blue separation ( i.e. made two negatives, one for the blue, and one for the orange) and then printed one to get blues, and the other to get the oranges. The resulting image wouldn't be full colour, but there would be a bit more colour information than in a pure monochrome image. Maybe the negative for blue, you print with the cyanotype process, and the one for the oranges you print with the ferroblend process with parameters shifted towards more orange tones.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

@Raghu Kuvempunagar I have noticed the FerroBlend stock solution getting slimy ie looks like some pseudo-polymerization. It can not be bacteria or mold, for that too much copper in the mix. Just wondering if you have seen that also?

Nice dandelion and leaves! It might also be interesting to use the dandelion itself in place of the paper negative for exposure, like they do in Lumen process.

I believe you are talking about the developer when you say "FerroBlend stock solution" as that's not the terminilogy I use. The process uses two solutions for the sensitiser and one for the developer other than some optional additives. The sensitiser solutions keep well just like Cyanotype solutions. The developer solution, if you are using the recipe given in my article, also stays good but mine usually gets over quickly. I have not noticed any mould. If gets thicker, add some water and use. Or better prepare just enough to use for a session or two.

Developer​

Capacity: 20 prints of size 8 × 10 inches

• Water: 75 ml
• Copper sulphate: 2 g
• Sodium citrate or Potassium citrate: 10 g
• Water to make: 100 ml

So if you want just enough developer for, say, 5 prints, use 1/4th the quantities in the above recipe and so on.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

This isn't a complete suggestion, but I was wondering if two-colour images would be possible somehow. The images so far are split tone blue/orange monochrome images. What if you took a colour image, and made a two colour orange/blue separation ( i.e. made two negatives, one for the blue, and one for the orange) and then printed one to get blues, and the other to get the oranges. The resulting image wouldn't be full colour, but there would be a bit more colour information than in a pure monochrome image. Maybe the negative for blue, you print with the cyanotype process, and the one for the oranges you print with the ferroblend process with parameters shifted towards more orange tones.

That's an interesting idea. I've used the same idea to make two layer prints with the first layer being a Cyanotype and the second layer being a Cuprotype (and vice versa) and have mentioned this as well as some other ways of blending Ferrocyanides in an earlier post in this thread. It indeed gives more control over how one wants to blend akin to multi-layer gum-bichromate process and in capable hands can produce compelling results. Personally, I prefer a single-layer process that does the blending intrinsically rather than blending by layering.

 

[Jan de Jong]

I love that dandelion.

This isn't a complete suggestion, but I was wondering if two-colour images would be possible somehow. The images so far are split tone blue/orange monochrome images. What if you took a colour image, and made a two colour orange/blue separation ( i.e. made two negatives, one for the blue, and one for the orange) and then printed one to get blues, and the other to get the oranges. The resulting image wouldn't be full colour, but there would be a bit more colour information than in a pure monochrome image. Maybe the negative for blue, you print with the cyanotype process, and the one for the oranges you print with the ferroblend process with parameters shifted towards more orange tones.

Yes, next on my list. First will try with some simple things to see how the 2 layers behave.

Nice dandelion and leaves! It might also be interesting to use the dandelion itself in place of the paper negative for exposure, like they do in Lumen process

Yes would certainly work, since it retains the delicate shades. Just the seeding flowers are delicate. Il give it a try. Looks to me perfect for bigger leaves also. I'll add some results when ready..

I believe you are talking about the developer when you say "FerroBlend stock solution" as that's not the terminilogy I use. The process uses two solutions for the sensitiser and one for the developer other than some optional additives. The sensitiser solutions keep well just like Cyanotype solutions. The developer solution, if you are using the recipe given in my article, also stays good but mine usually gets over quickly. I have not noticed any mould. If gets thicker, add some water and use. Or better prepare just enough to use for a session or two.

Yes I am making the developer as described. Just to have some more I doubled it to 200ml total. To the eye it looks as a liquid, but pulling the brush out you can see some treading like a liquid syrup. Adding it for the diluted developer it will mix well again, so it seems only a temporary alignment of the citrate and copper somehow. It does not influence the process. In fact I thought to make a gel with the developer for sheet/roller application like Polaroid, or local application so it will not run off to other parts.

Both, thank you for your comments!
Jan.

 

[Jan de Jong]

I believe you are talking about the developer when you say "FerroBlend stock solution" as that's not the terminilogy I use. The process uses two solutions for the sensitiser and one for the developer other than some optional additives. The sensitiser solutions keep well just like Cyanotype solutions. The developer solution, if you are using the recipe given in my article, also stays good but mine usually gets over quickly. I have not noticed any mould. If gets thicker, add some water and use. Or better prepare just enough to use for a session or two.

Checking a bit further with the microscope, there is no known organism that grows in 2% copper solution. It seems to be an alignment of the sodium citrate and the copper sulfate mix that happens after some days. It makes coating easier, still I also prepared some new which is fully liquid again. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this. Checking at 450x do not see any possible bacteria etc. which would be impossible anyway. What you see already at 100x is a sort of oily behavior. See image. Also there is no crystallization. The capture is itself interesting for a FerroBlend again. What you said about liquid evaporating is impossible it is in a closed bottle.

Image of the "slimy" FerroBlend at 100x

 

[NedL]

very interesting! Now I want a microscope that can make photos like that!!!!!!

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

See image. Also there is no crystallization. The capture is itself interesting for a FerroBlend again.
Image of the "slimy" FerroBlend at 100x

That's very fascinating! Thanks for sharing the microscopy image.

Just curious. Are these paramecium-like structures seen also after adding some water to the thick developer?

What you said about liquid evaporating is impossible it is in a closed bottle.

I don't think I said what you are attributing to me.

 

[Jan de Jong]

very interesting! Now I want a microscope that can make photos like that!!!!!!

Agree,

That's very fascinating! Thanks for sharing the microscopy image.

Just curious. Are these paramecium-like structures seen also after adding some water to the thick developer?

This is a drop taken direct from the FerroBlend developer,, no dilution. Mount with cover slip. Yes looks like paramecium, but looks to be physical effect of the liquid only.

I don't think I said what you are attributing to me.

I am sorry for my free interpretation of that. I will do some further observations with the new 200ml I made Sunday. If anything interesting further I'll post it here.

 

[Jan de Jong]

@Raghu Kuvempunagar Seeing the effect that the FerroBlend will retain even faint exposed parts of the print, ie no wash-off or bleaching, I tried some experiments to make a one-stop-shop ie add the sodiumcitrate and some copper sulfate direct to the emulsion.
Just to reveal, it did not work. (yet) My goal is to get a cyanotype that has a larger range and no wash-off or bleaching, just like the FerroBlend.
What I tried was
10ml dest water add 2gr FAC dissolve,
add 1gr of SodiumCitrate and dissolve,
add 0.03 gr of Copper Sulfate and dissolve
then add 1.3gr of K-Ferri and dissolve. (you may see a hint of color change direction copper short)

Use this mix as emulsion direct. Coats nice and gives a nice even Lemon yellow color, dries well, no discoloring.

being impatient I used 2 pages after about 1 hour, after exposure I brushed on a slightly acid water layer, in the hope the copper in the emulsion would bind all blue, then rinse in tap-water with a few drops of citric acid solution.
I did not have the effect I wanted, still did not retain all faint exposed parts the way I had hoped for.

I will try with more copper-sulfate look if that will give the "FerroBlend" in one go, but fear it will react before coating or drying, but we will see.

I will let you know the results, ie good or bad later.

-> any hints welcome, goal is to get a better cyanotype with linear response just like FerroBlend, a hint of pink in the highlights is not a problem.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

@Jan de Jong: if your goal is to minimise the loss of Prussian Blue pigment during Cyanotype development stage, it is best to go with Mike Ware's New Cyanotype which in my (albeit limited) experience gives a beautiful and long tonal scale with very little loss of pigments.

If the goal is to combine the developer and sensitiser of FerroBlend, you can try the approach I described earlier. I made a few prints circa 2024 with this approach but found OP to be simpler and more flexible. YMMV.

Cor's Copper Printing process is described here. By adding varying amount of FAC to Copper Printing sensitiser and developing the print after exposure in Sulphamic Acid, you can get interesting blending of the two Ferrocyanides. I didn't use Solution C (Ammonium Persulphate) which is essentially a restrainer but a drop of Ammonium Dichromate can be used if desired.

 

[Jan de Jong]

@Jan de Jong: if your goal is to minimise the loss of Prussian Blue pigment during Cyanotype development stage, it is best to go with Mike Ware's New Cyanotype which in my (albeit limited) experience gives a beautiful and long tonal scale with very little loss of pigments.

If the goal is to combine the developer and sensitiser of FerroBlend, you can try the approach I described earlier. I made a few prints circa 2024 with this approach but found OP to be simpler and more flexible. YMMV.

Cor's Copper Printing process is described here. By adding varying amount of FAC to Copper Printing sensitiser and developing the print after exposure in Sulphamic Acid, you can get interesting blending of the two Ferrocyanides. I didn't use Solution C (Ammonium Persulphate) which is essentially a restrainer but a drop of Ammonium Dichromate can be used if desired.

My goal is to have the normal cyanotype improved by adding some copper-sulfate, it seems to work in the 2 pass process with the diluted FerroBlend keeping the details and keeping the print blue. So my objective was to do it in a single pass.
I tend not to use chromates or oxalic for safety reasons.

thank you for the comments.