ZoneImaging Photochemicals: A new photochemical company

Ian Grant said:

I have some Pyrocat HD Part A in Glycol that is at least 12 years old Actually it's double strength to cut weight when flying when I was living abroad, Actually it keeps for around 4 years mixed in water as long as the Metabisulphite is fresh when made up. I realised this as my stock in the UK lasted while I was living in Turkey.

Ian

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I tried mixing Pyrocat-HD in glycol years ago. I went through a litre of it in a month. Wasn't worth it due to very high cost of glycol. As you say, it's keeping qualities are excellent in just water (I use ditilled water).

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

After all this is 21st century, the century of data driven decision making.

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I like the addition of at the end.

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill said:

I tried mixing Pyrocat-HD in glycol years ago. I went through a litre of it in a month. Wasn't worth it due to very high cost of glycol. As you say, it's keeping qualities are excellent in just water (I use ditilled water).

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I use de-ionised water, Glycol just adds unnecessary costs.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

I use de-ionised water, Glycol just adds unnecessary costs.

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It would be cool to have a tablet version of Pyrocat-HD in addition to water/glycol versions - PyroTab or TabCat.

There is a formula for jelly-like Pyrocatechol-developer cubes with a melting point above 22°C. I do not find this practical for several reasons.
https://petapixel.com/2021/02/25/ho...er-cubes-for-easier-darkroom-film-processing/

AgX said:

There is a formula for jelly-like Pyrocatechol-developer cubes with a melting point above 22°C. I do not find this practical for several reasons.
https://petapixel.com/2021/02/25/ho...er-cubes-for-easier-darkroom-film-processing/

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What are those reasons?

The fumes at making, the stickiness of the cubes and their low melting point (I have not done the math on the exact one).

(Furthermore I grew up photographically without knowing about staining developers, in the major german textbook on processes staining development is not even mentioned...)

AgX said:

The fumes at making, the stickiness of the cubes and their low melting point (I have not done the math on the exact one).

(Furthermore I grew up photographically without knowing about staining developers, in the major german textbook on processes staining development is not even mentioned...)

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Keating's cubes are not something I would want to try making at home, but I don't see why an industrial manufacturer would have trouble manufacturing them. Stickiness can probably eliminated with better synthesis and/or additional ingredients.

Frankly, I would be interested in buying and using cubes/tablets only if they are functionally equivalent to a well-known and well-used developer like Pyrocat-HD, XTol or D-76. If the cubes/tablets are a totally new (and largely untested) developer like Keating's, then it's not worth the trouble IMO.

I have a lot of questions.

1. Given that photo chemicals sold to amateur users are specifically intended to be dealt with by the public water treatment systems, and the volumes used are orders of magnitude lower than before the "digital age".....what is the environmental problem with home developing?
2. I have read they intend to market a developer based on pyrogallol as environmentally more friendly than the traditional developers most of us use? This strikes me as more harmful to the environment
3. He claims he's being environmentally responsible but uses his C41 chemicals as "single use".

Colour me sceptical. Sounds like marketing guff. Maybe it's the same guy who came here a while back and tried to persuade us all to stop analogue photography due to the chemicals we use?

Agulliver said:

Given that photo chemicals sold to amateur users are specifically intended to be dealt with by the public water treatment systems, and the volumes used are orders of magnitude lower than before the "digital age".....what is the environmental problem with home developing?

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It is a fundamental issue.

At my county the respective sewage engineer explained to me that any spent photographic bath is waste, and waste may not be disposed via the sewage, in any amount.

I do not see this statement in line with legislation, but in first instance I have to follow what county authorities urge me to do.

Agulliver said:

Given that photo chemicals sold to amateur users are specifically intended to be dealt with by the public water treatment systems,...

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Is that so?

Agulliver said:

I have a lot of questions.

1. Given that photo chemicals sold to amateur users are specifically intended to be dealt with by the public water treatment systems, and the volumes used are orders of magnitude lower than before the "digital age".....what is the environmental problem with home developing?
2. I have read they intend to market a developer based on pyrogallol as environmentally more friendly than the traditional developers most of us use? This strikes me as more harmful to the environment
3. He claims he's being environmentally responsible but uses his C41 chemicals as "single use".

Colour me sceptical. Sounds like marketing guff. Maybe it's the same guy who came here a while back and tried to persuade us all to stop analogue photography due to the chemicals we use?

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I dealt with the chief chemist at Thames Eater Board and provided the Silver had been recovered even quite large labs could get permission to discharge to the sewers, I was told the only exception had been a lab located in a small town very close to the sewage works, so there was the potential so insufficient dilution. I asked about amateur darkrooms and they indicated they weren't an issue.

If you are running a commercial lab permission is needed.

Ian

I wish him well. But anyone who titles himself Entrepreneur is on a head trip. He should drop it. It's like calling a Fine Art Photographer, Artist. It's all self-serving.

Agulliver said:

I have a lot of questions.

1. Given that photo chemicals sold to amateur users are specifically intended to be dealt with by the public water treatment systems, and the volumes used are orders of magnitude lower than before the "digital age".....what is the environmental problem with home developing?
...

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I understand it depends were you live.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:

It would be cool to have a tablet version of Pyrocat-HD in addition to water/glycol versions - PyroTab or TabCat.

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I could take a tablet and the film would be developed? Now that would be really cool!

Sirius Glass said:

I could take a tablet and the film would be developed? Now that would be really cool!

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Aren't there tablets that will do just that to you at least if not necessarily to the film in your possession. A lot of the Russian athletes and many of the Tour de France riders, one Texan in particular, can attest to such tablets' efficacy

pentaxuser

Ian Grant said:

I use de-ionised water, Glycol just adds unnecessary costs.

Ian

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That said, does it have to be lab grade glycol? For example: https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...MI1vXU7L6b9gIVl43ICh0HUQH3EAQYASABEgKFFfD_BwE

Ian Grant said:

I use de-ionised water, Glycol just adds unnecessary costs.

Ian

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The cost difference is not much at Photographer's Formulary.

Sirius Glass said:

The cost difference is not much at Photographer's Formulary.

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True because it's already quite expensive, to my mind overpriced. I buy my raw chemicals in bulk, up typically 1kg to 25kg, I have spreadsheets to monitor the Litre cost of the formulae I make up so I know how much their mark ups are based on my purchasing, they will in fact be buying at lower prices.

Yes I could buy Glycol in bilk which would narrow the difference substantially, but as the developer (Part A) lasts so well in water,.

mgb74 said:

That said, does it have to be lab grade glycol? For example: https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...MI1vXU7L6b9gIVl43ICh0HUQH3EAQYASABEgKFFfD_BwE

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You'd have to look at the purity in the MSDS, Lab grade is just a general commercial reagent grade, it's an alcohol impurities are likely other alcohols and of no consequence.

Ian

I bothered to open the file that Raghu referred when opening his thread and noticed this interesting comment : " As COVID lockdown hit, he started modifying black and white developers and under the guidance of a Kodak engineer, an unique C41 developer for the lab giving more vibrant reds. " Presumably this "he" is the founder James Lane?

I wonder who the Kodak engineer was? There appears to be links with Ilford engineers as well so I wonder who they are. Are they currently still with Kodak and Ilford and how were such links found? It might be that James Lane has been in the photographic chemical business for a number of years but again I cannot work out Mr Lane's photographic chemical pedigree from the Zone Imaging site's write-up

As far as I know a C41 Kodak engineer suggests someone who is currently in Rochester or was in Rochester and maybe retired to the U.K. unless it was a link at a distance i.e. internet skype or phone

I suppose the only person likely to have the answers to all of the above is James Lane, the founder. He appears to be quite young to have made as many contacts as he has but these days everyone looks quite young to me.

As is our wont on Photrio some of us are a little suspicious of what seem marketing hyperbole, others are benignly neutral and one certainly, Jemzyboz, a newish member is probably the most enthusiastic and supportive

So Jemzyboz, can I ask what your range of experience has been with Zone Imaging as a customer?

Thanks

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

As far as I know a C41 Kodak engineer suggests someone who is currently in Rochester or was in Rochester and maybe retired to the U.K. unless it was a link at a distance i.e. internet skype or phone

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I imagine that Harrow would have had some technical folks when C-41 was a high volume product. But yes, all these vague "brags" do shuttle this into "marketing" rather than "Technical" in my internal storage system.

The "Kodak engineer" could be an engineer like Sirius Glass - a software engineer!
Prior to his passing, Ron Mowrey did do some contract consulting. I'm sure there are others out there.
And Kodak Limited (the UK subsidiary of Eastman Kodak) was a very large entity in itself, and no doubt had many "Kodak engineers" on staff over time.

MattKing said:

The "Kodak engineer" could be an engineer like Sirius Glass - a software engineer!
Prior to his passing, Ron Mowrey did do some contract consulting. I'm sure there are others out there.
And Kodak Limited (the UK subsidiary of Eastman Kodak) was a very large entity in itself, and no doubt had many "Kodak engineers" on staff over time.

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Correction Hardware Software System Engineer and Computer Architect but not a film engineer nor a chemist. Hence I do not post about the details of film chemistry nor the details of film development chemistry.

pentaxuser said:

So Jemzyboz, can I ask what your range of experience has been with Zone Imaging as a customer?

Thanks

pentaxuser

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Customer ? . . . . . . . . . . . James, please be honest.

Ian

pentaxuser said:

I bothered to open the file that Raghu referred when opening his thread and noticed this interesting comment : " As COVID lockdown hit, he started modifying black and white developers and under the guidance of a Kodak engineer, an unique C41 developer for the lab giving more vibrant reds. " Presumably this "he" is the founder James Lane?

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Or he spent a lot of time trawling Ron's writing here & elsewhere.