I hear a lot of bloated marketing speak in his site contents. It’s as if 510 Pyro is new or something. (Or in some way excels over Pyrocat HD)
ZoneImaging Photochemicals: A new photochemical company
-
A
- Thread starter Raghu Kuvempunagar
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
For Sale FS Enlarging lenses. Fujinon-EX 90mm and Fujinon-EX 50mm
- Started by Erik L
-
For Sale Hasselblad Zeiss FE 50mm f/2.8 Distagon Blue Line Series Lens
- Started by tpstearns
-
For Sale FS: B&J Press 4x5 Camera
- Started by B.S.Kumar
-
For Sale FS: Nikon 4X Pro Loupe
- Started by B.S.Kumar
Forum statistics
I would like to, Raghu, but as I said above, I feel uncomfortable by the behaviour of most on this thread that all they can do is attack on something they haven't used and someone they have never spoken to. I have also seen their behaviour on other threads in the past even those unrelated to 510 Pyro or Zone Imaging etc and I find it unsavoury.
I might consider making a separate thread for photo sharing however, I shall see...
I saw you mentioned earlier in the thread you would like to see an eco developer one day that is highly concentrated and as good as Xtol with the convenience of Xtol. I recall a post by James he made a few years ago on the group talking about that he had something like that, I have taken the liberty of looking up the post and here is a quote from the post:
"Truly revolutionary and very eco friendly as it contains no toxic ingredients.
This developer is incredibly fine grained and sharp yet gives full or more film speed - we're talking grainless Ilford HP5+ - and it's highly concentrated, 500ml develops 166 rolls. Shelf life is 3+ years and being really conservative, it's likely more. This would be perfect for households with children and pets and especially educational institutions that have to follow strict health and safety.
A photo of me attached taken on 120 HP5+ with a 1:1 crop to show there is no grain and is very sharp."
He hasn't shared much info on it further other to post a few more photos done with that developer over time and to say that his bottle still works.
Honestly, it's easier for you all to just email him or message him on Facebook instead of speculating. He seems a very approachable guy based from what I've seen on his Facebook group
OP
OP
I think I know the developer you/James is talking about. I have seen some scans of negatives developed with this holy grail of a developer. No doubt the scans looked OK at the size they were posted, but one could ask whether similar results are not obtainable with D-76 or even Cinestill's DF96 monobath. You see there lies the problem with claims made about 510-Pyro and this XTol-killer - there is no credible data to believe that these 21st century developers are any better than any of the widely used developers from the past century. Without a systematic study that compares these new generation developers with older ones and produces data that anybody can look at and evaluate, all claims made by James and his ilk can be dismissed as marketing fluff.
As you seem to have James' best interests in mind and also read his mind, why don't you encourage them to hire a credible consultant (someone similar to @Henning Serger in knowledge and reputation) to do a systematic study of both 510-Pyro and the eco developer? Or if he has already gotten such a study done, please ask him to make the results public to put an end to lingering skepticism about his developers being anything special.
If there is a Holy Grail developer which renders HP5+ grainless, it seems like we would have heard about it. If it is so great, why doesn't Zone Imaging offer it as an alternative for its customers? It seems like it would be a real selling point for using Zone Imaging's services.
Maybe James could inform us as he's posting in this thread
A bit of honesty would stop the negativity, and do him some favours.Ian
Jemzyboz, I am unsure how you can know how James( I take it you are referring to James Lane the owner of Zone Imaging) will view what you regard as the behaviour of most on this thread. Have you been in touch with him and relayed all the thread to him or are you close enough to him to know how he would react based on your interpretation of the behaviour of most on this thread
Most here have decades of experience of developers and some have detailed knowledge of developer chemistry so it is natural they are going to ask for evidence and are way beyond that stage in their photography where they can be expected to accept what I think you will agree is marketing speak rather than evidence of what it is that makes Zone Imaging products better. No problem with promotion of products but there has to be more than that surely?
It might be a start if you relate to us your experience of Mr Lane's chemicals and why you have found them to an improvement. Do you have 2 sets of prints for instance. One set in ordinary 510 Pyro and the other set Zone Imaging's Pyro
I'd certainly consider Raghu's suggestion to recommend the use of Henning Serger to James. This assumes of course that your relationship with James is sufficiently close him to make you someone whose judgement he trusts
pentaxuser
Most here have decades of experience of developers and some have detailed knowledge of developer chemistry so it is natural they are going to ask for evidence and are way beyond that stage in their photography where they can be expected to accept what I think you will agree is marketing speak rather than evidence of what it is that makes Zone Imaging products better. No problem with promotion of products but there has to be more than that surely?
It might be a start if you relate to us your experience of Mr Lane's chemicals and why you have found them to an improvement. Do you have 2 sets of prints for instance. One set in ordinary 510 Pyro and the other set Zone Imaging's Pyro
I'd certainly consider Raghu's suggestion to recommend the use of Henning Serger to James. This assumes of course that your relationship with James is sufficiently close him to make you someone whose judgement he trusts
pentaxuser
Indeed. Getting really good at processing C-41 in a Jobo (with manufactured chemistry, as opposed to homebrewed without meaningful process controls) using single-shot chemistry doesn't take long. If he'd stuck to using the pre-made C-41 until he understood enough of Z-119 to be able to deal with getting an off-target C-41 mixed from a recipe in line with manufactured C-41, none of this would have happened & nobody would have cared. Instead we ended up getting an insight into a questionable understanding of professionalism.
He also seems to think that no one here has the basic ability to look up his posting history - or that his posts here can be cross-referenced to posts he made on Facebook. I've attached screenshots of the pertinent ones (in case they disappear) - and links to the posts on Photrio can be found here and here.
Agreed. He might then discover that people are willing to direct him to the page in Z-119 which explains the likely mixing error (possibly compounded by lack of starter) causing his wrong colour balance/ saturation.
Attachments
Do I understand correctly from the attachments that jemzyboz is James Lane and he has not been honest with us in the thread?
Last edited:
There would seem to be questions to answer.
Jemzyboz, just admit you are James Lane, I realised immediately you posted in this thread, but someone else has way more factual details.
I called you out yesterday on the UK LF Forum
Ian
I called you out yesterday on the UK LF Forum
Ian
It appears Jemzyboz has viewed this thread since you posted this, Ian, but not replied.
If this is in fact Mr. Lane, owner of the ZoneImaging Lab, it's rather disingenuous to post to the forum as "an innocent bystander". But le'ts wait and see if he opts to confirm or deny our supposition.
Lachlan,
This is part of the trouble I have with 'Zone Imaging' in that there does seem to be a 'questionable understanding of professionalism' as you put it, and very little evidence of a robust advantage over more established or well considered offerings. Additionally I think myself and others on this thread have been accused of offering 'unsavoury' opinions to quote Mr Lane or his alter-ego, which seems odd given the circumstances...
Tom
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2010
- Messages
- 9,182
- Format
- 4x5 Format
I regularly see and interact with posts by Jay DeFehr, Rudiger Hartung and Daniel Keating on Facebook.
They are a great set of people to have behind the scenes of a new photographic supply business.
A couple developers I recall off the top of my head that they’re working on… Pyro butter, Obsidian Aqua.
I wish them all the best luck
They are a great set of people to have behind the scenes of a new photographic supply business.
A couple developers I recall off the top of my head that they’re working on… Pyro butter, Obsidian Aqua.
I wish them all the best luck
I now doubt he will opt to confirm or deny our supposition based on what I have now seen. I'd be surprised if he regards Photrio as other than "stony ground on which the seeds will not germinate "
We may not hear from Jemzyboz again.
pentaxuser
OP
OP
The inventor of this new developer had plans to manufacture and distribute it worldwide himself and many users had signed up. Unfortunately for the inventor and despite his best efforts, MSDS and shipping liquids internationally turned out be an unsurmountable problem.
The new eco developer could turn out to be a 510-Pyro killer as it supposedly offers similar or better image quality than 510-Pyro while having the added advantage of being non toxic. Would ZI want to launch a new product that could potentially cannibalize their best selling product?
Last edited:
Was this a published formula?
OP
OP
No, at least as far as I am aware. I think the inventor has not disclosed it to even ZI. Otherwise problems of transatlantic shipping would not have loomed large.
I thought it was said to contain no toxic ingredients.
Which would be quite some feat since even coffee contains toxic ingredients.
count me among those who isn't quite taken in by the hyperbole - because it is not backed up by any explanations, any further details...there is a total absence of any substance.
None of us desires to harm the environment. I am sure we'd all at least be curious at this new, revolutionary developer which reduces grain, has a very long shelf life and is harmless to humans and our environment.....just....colour me sceptical when there seem to be a lot of smoke & mirrors and a total absence of any credible explanation of what this person actually claims to have achieved.
- yes, it would be an improvement if 'Zone Imaging' and others practised 'evidence based photography'.
Oh....THAT Facebook group....the one everyone left two years ago because the admin acted.....umm....how can I put this......in a bizarre manner?
This type of " Jekyll & Hyde " behaviour is very unprofessional for a lab that claims to be catering to beginners and professionals alike.
Straight away it would put me off.
I often think this alter-ego is a means of creating backlinks to their website, which, if done correctly, will help their listing in Google.
From my own personal view, I think the website lacks a visual appeal (not many images) for someone in the business of processing visual materials.
I know I am old fashioned (because I am old) but for C41 the site says " we process it in our very own lab-made developer " I wouldn't like that. I want consistency in development that comes from using the proven results of Fuji, Kodak, Champion, or Tetenal chemistry.
Straight away it would put me off.
I often think this alter-ego is a means of creating backlinks to their website, which, if done correctly, will help their listing in Google.
From my own personal view, I think the website lacks a visual appeal (not many images) for someone in the business of processing visual materials.
I know I am old fashioned (because I am old) but for C41 the site says " we process it in our very own lab-made developer " I wouldn't like that. I want consistency in development that comes from using the proven results of Fuji, Kodak, Champion, or Tetenal chemistry.
OP
OP
Regarding MSDS and shipping issue faced by the inventor of the eco developer, I find it odd that ZI shipped toxic 510-Pyro to a lab in USA recently but the eco developer can't be shipped easily from USA to UK and Europe. Who prepares MSDS document? Is it the manufacturer or some independent certified chemical laboratory?
I have seen such at our field made under the name of the manufacturer, by an external provider and no such documents offered at all...
What was the nature of this behaviour?
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |