Y marks on my negatives! Why?

[mrs.martin]

My photography classes are processing and I've experienced these Y marks on the negatives. What causes this? I have multiple students using the same chemicals, film, timing, etc. NOT everyone, but certain rolls are getting these crystally Y's on them. FRUSTRATING! Too cold of stop bath/water? It's room temperature. Static marks? HELP! Tri-x 400 and Arista EDU 400, Kodak D76, Kodak Fixer.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Are there physical kinks in the film base from loading the film to the reels improperly?

 

[Truzi]

That is also my first thought - the film may have folded or got bent/creased.

 

[bdial]

kinks seem the most likely to me, though they more often look like crescent moons. What does the film look like where these marks occur? Is there a visible bend or indentation? Do the marks tend to occur at the beginning or end of the roll?

It would seem odd that more than one person would get marks that look exactly like that.

 

[aRolleiBrujo]

That is a nice looking image!

 

[MattKing]

Was the film bulk loaded, and did it come from the same loader (s)?

 

[summicron1]

the 3-pointed things?

no way those are kinks in the film. No clue what they are, but film kinks don't look like that.

 

[pentaxuser]

I can't see any kinks as I understand kinks to be. I think I can see what I assume to be reflections of birds in the water and maybe reflections of long grass in the water

Can you show us another example of where you feel the kinks are more obvious?

pentaxuser

 

[mrs.martin]

no kinks or dents. smooth rolling. not bulk loaded film but cheaper student grade - Arista Ultra EDU. the Ys are not on every image - some have more than others. Unfortunately for her it was on a good one

 

[mrs.martin]

and for some reason it flipped my image here. the negative space is actually sky

 

[bdial]

Roughly how many students does this happen too? What commonality or differences exist on those cases?
Does it happen randomly?

 

[jeztastic]

Could some dust or something have blown inside the camera? Or got in the developing tank?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

It kind of looks like a grid pattern, like honeycomb or chicken wire, where only parts of it touches the emulsion. Is it roll film? 135? 120? How is the film dried?

 

[mrs.martin]

135 film. happens to probably 25 out of 200 rolls. TOTALLY random. We soak and clean the tanks but it has crossed my mind that there was some residue left behind. film is stored hanging in drying cabinet - i really think it happens within the tank - the marks are so engrained in the film.
wondering if it's the film - although it's so random and rarely happens to the same person twice. too much aggitation? this was our first round and they did it step by step with me and made great efforts to do very gradual inversion of tanks. all same temp of water and same jug of D76. I'm at a loss!

 

[Xmas]

Could be pollen try filtering the developer stop and fix through coffee paper.

 

[MartinP]

It is an area of light or see-through emulsion in each case, so that rules out static-sparks (and there wouldn't be so much anyway, and probably not at all in 135). Is there any visible surface imperfection on the emulsion? The different densities and sizes are very unusual!

As you are using chemicals made up from powder, can we just confirm that every batch is filtered into the measured container before use? (eg. fill the measuring cylinder(s) through a funnel with some washed cotton-wool in the spout).

Are the films showing this effect left in the tank 'dry' for any length of time? (perhaps allowing dried fixer-residue to fall in to the loaded reel? or using poorly washed and not-quite-dry metal reels?)

And the obvious one, if these are from a scanner, or contact-frame print, is the glass clean?! (though that would usually be seen as light specks or marks, not dark ones).

If there is no physical damage, it looks as though something is slowing development on those small "Y" areas - but what . . . and that is your question of course! Oops.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Is the air really dry in your darkroom? I wonder if unspooling the film is causing static electricity that's leaving those marks?

 

[MartinP]

I wonder if unspooling the film is causing static electricity that's leaving those marks?

But a spark would darken the neg, and here we see dark marks in the positive (implying lighter areas in the film). It's puzzling.

 

[cliveh]

and for some reason it flipped my image here. the negative space is actually sky

Can you explain why the image is flipped? I have never seen marks like these and it would be interesting to discover the cause.

 

[bdial]

Do you see indentations or other damage in the emulsion?
Has it ever happened with other films, say Ilford, Kodak or Fuji?

Good point about light vs dark, stress kinks would be light in the print.(oops)

 

[250swb]

If you look closely they are not all perfect 'Y' marks, and some seem to be joining up, so unless it is impact damage which I can't imagine it is, I'd think it is the beginnings of reticulation, perhaps the film being dunked quickly into and out of hot/cold water.

Steve

 

[cliveh]

If you look closely they are not all perfect 'Y' marks, and some seem to be joining up, so unless it is impact damage which I can't imagine it is, I'd think it is the beginnings of reticulation, perhaps the film being dunked quickly into and out of hot/cold water.

Steve

No way. They are grey and more likely caused by surface contamination on the film or print.

 

[Chris Livsey]

I can only add what it isn't !!
Loading marks are crescent shapes, static marks are feathery or look like forked lightning, no really! Reticulation due to heat is much more random and has a crazy paving look irregular, chemically induced reticulation can be very regular but will not occur with normal processing. I don't think it is anything to do with the processing including the drying I think it is an emulsion issue before exposure. Presumably you have a single batch? That would make it odder but could be storage deterioration, rolls at the top or bottom of a box being affected by something in storage, really grasping a straws. If a mixed batch check affected batch numbers, coded on the film edge to see if they match at all, see if same batch has unaffected rolls.
I would send samples to the maker.
You could ask Photo Engineer here or Simon Galley but the latter may be reluctant to comment on none Ilford/Harman stock.

 

[cramej]

Beginnings of vinegar syndrome? Maybe something too acidic or hot in the dev process and it could have damaged the acetate.

 

[pentaxuser]

Hasn't the OP eliminated temperature change at the end of post 14?

pentaxuser