Why is XTOL so good

[trendland]

@trendland XTol replenishment makes your developer stronger than used developer, but not stronger than fresh XTol. Remember that XTol is replenished with itself, there's no special replenisher formula for XTol.

Understand - yes I know the big advantage of Xtol (easy to handle from replunishment)!

So I interpreted your statement wrong ( in case of replunisher rate)!

with regard

PS : The log of replunishment is in other direction - Xtol comes slow and more slow the more films
the more replunish steps!

PPS : Therefore a compensation of time OR one shot Xtol is fine!
(If you find out the right rate of compensation).

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

There is no need to exceed the Kodak recommendations of 70ml per 80 square inches of film just to make it stronger.

I posted earlier that my working solution of XTOL gets weaker over time with 70ml per 80sq inches. Is that from bromide build up? If that's the case, it's probably better to a start fresh batch of working solution or toss half of the used working solution and mix in half fresh. I like to look of seasoned developer.

 

[Rudeofus]

I posted earlier that my working solution of XTOL gets weaker over time with 70ml per 80sq inches. Is that from bromide build up? If that's the case, it's probably better to a start fresh batch of working solution or toss half of the used working solution and mix in half fresh. I like to look of seasoned developer.

Kodak specifically formulated XTol such that it could be replenished with itself and in relatively small amounts. This "I replenish 70ml or 100 ml per roll" is not some life hack from a frugal photographer, but actually recommended procedure.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Kodak specifically formulated XTol such that it could be replenished with itself and in relatively small amounts. This "I replenish 70ml or 100 ml per roll" is not some life hack from a frugal photographer, but actually recommended procedure.

That's me, the frugal photographer. I think if my working solution is getting weaker with the recommended replenishment rate, I'll have to toss the whole thing out I'm guessing you can't replenish the working solution indefinitely.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I posted earlier that my working solution of XTOL gets weaker over time with 70ml per 80sq inches. Is that from bromide build up? If that's the case, it's probably better to a start fresh batch of working solution or toss half of the used working solution and mix in half fresh. I like to look of seasoned developer.

Replenished XTOL is supposed to be weaker. That is exactly what is supposed to happen, hence the longer development times than stock XTOL.

 

[MattKing]

I posted earlier that my working solution of XTOL gets weaker over time with 70ml per 80sq inches. Is that from bromide build up? If that's the case, it's probably better to a start fresh batch of working solution or toss half of the used working solution and mix in half fresh. I like to look of seasoned developer.

Kodak does recommend that you monitor the results and, if you note either increased or decreased activity, adjust the amount of replenishment accordingly.
Different films and different subjects on those films will have different consequences with respect to the capacity reduction and byproduct increase, so it makes sense that 70 ml wouldn't be perfect for all circumstances. It isn't particularly sensitive, so unless you have huge volumes, you can do the monitoring reasonably effectively by just carefully observing your results. If you do have huge volumes, you can justify the expense of control strips and a densitometer.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Kodak does recommend that you monitor the results and, if you note either increased or decreased activity, adjust the amount of replenishment accordingly.
Different films and different subjects on those films will have different consequences with respect to the capacity reduction and byproduct increase, so it makes sense that 70 ml wouldn't be perfect for all circumstances. It isn't particularly sensitive, so unless you have huge volumes, you can do the monitoring reasonably effectively by just carefully observing your results. If you do have huge volumes, you can justify the expense of control strips and a densitometer.

Sadly, I not a high volume film processor. Using control strips and a densitometer is not practical for me. I would think the next best thing is processing film with XTOL under a safelight. If it requires longer times, replenish more?

 

[MattKing]

Sadly, I not a high volume film processor. Using control strips and a densitometer is not practical for me. I would think the next best thing is processing film with XTOL under a safelight. If it requires longer times, replenish more?

You don't need that level of precision (unless you do). Any change will be small and incremental, and can be monitored by just careful observation every few rolls.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

You don't need that level of precision (unless you do). Any change will be small and incremental, and can be monitored by just careful observation every few rolls.

I really don't need a level of high precision. I noticed as my negs drifted to the thin side, I just printed on a slightly higher grade. My goal is to have negs printable on grade 2. If my negs start out printing on grade 3, I don't have as much leeway if I need more contrast. I do notice that I get more consistent results using developers 1 shot, but again, I like the look of seasoned developer.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I really don't need a level of high precision. I noticed as my negs drifted to the thin side, I just printed on a slightly higher grade. My goal is to have negs printable on grade 2. If my negs start out printing on grade 3, I don't have as much leeway if I need more contrast. I do notice that I get more consistent results using developers 1 shot, but again, I like the look of seasoned developer.

Some photo-darkroom folks aim for grade 2 and some aim for grade 3. Me, I aim toward grade 2.5 or as close as I can get so as to give me plenty of space on either side grade wise. You say you are not a high volume user when it come to Xtol-R. If that's the case then you must add replenisher at a set interval regardless whether you develop a roll or not. If I go a good month without developing a roll I'll ad 90ml instead of my normal 80mls. Yes, I add 80ml and not 70ml as is normal, but my stock is also at a different ratio hence it requires 80ml and not the normal 70ml. The only problem I have with Xtol-R is that I have to rum my stock/working Xtol through a filter every two or three months to get the sediment out. I think Xtol-R is the best thing since sliced bread, but that's just me. My batch is roughly three years old and still doing very will, but I did just buy some new and will be mixing up another batch soon. With Xtol-R I shoot near box speed with Delta 100, FP4+ and HP5+. When I shoot PanF+ it's at a EI 25 and set my development according to the contrast of the scene. I don't worship grain so I keep my negs more toward the thinner side. JohnW

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Kodak does recommend that you monitor the results and, if you note either increased or decreased activity, adjust the amount of replenishment accordingly.
Different films and different subjects on those films will have different consequences with respect to the capacity reduction and byproduct increase, so it makes sense that 70 ml wouldn't be perfect for all circumstances.

This kind of makes life more complicated than necessary. Is this generally true for all replenished developers including Adox MQ Borax?

 

[Rudeofus]

This kind of makes life more complicated than necessary. Is this generally true for all replenished developers including Adox MQ Borax?

Of course it is. All photographic developers are oxidized by aerial Oxygen, and processing of film throws compounds into the developer which may or may not hasten its decay. Even if you monitor specific gravity and pH in a replenished system, different films will release different amounts of bromide and iodide into the developer.

If you want high levels of reproducibility, use fresh developer single shot.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Some photo-darkroom folks aim for grade 2 and some aim for grade 3. Me, I aim toward grade 2.5 or as close as I can get so as to give me plenty of space on either side grade wise. You say you are not a high volume user when it come to Xtol-R. If that's the case then you must add replenisher at a set interval regardless whether you develop a roll or not. If I go a good month without developing a roll I'll ad 90ml instead of my normal 80mls. Yes, I add 80ml and not 70ml as is normal, but my stock is also at a different ratio hence it requires 80ml and not the normal 70ml. The only problem I have with Xtol-R is that I have to rum my stock/working Xtol through a filter every two or three months to get the sediment out. I think Xtol-R is the best thing since sliced bread, but that's just me. My batch is roughly three years old and still doing very will, but I did just buy some new and will be mixing up another batch soon. With Xtol-R I shoot near box speed with Delta 100, FP4+ and HP5+. When I shoot PanF+ it's at a EI 25 and set my development according to the contrast of the scene. I don't worship grain so I keep my negs more toward the thinner side. JohnW

Thanks for the valuable advice. It's pretty amazing that you have a working solution of XTOL that's 3 years old. I tossed my working solution after a year because I thought it reached is useful life. I'll add 80ml/per 80 sq inches.

I do agree XTOL is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak does recommend that you monitor the results and, if you note either increased or decreased activity, adjust the amount of replenishment accordingly.
Different films and different subjects on those films will have different consequences with respect to the capacity reduction and byproduct increase, so it makes sense that 70 ml wouldn't be perfect for all circumstances. It isn't particularly sensitive, so unless you have huge volumes, you can do the monitoring reasonably effectively by just carefully observing your results. If you do have huge volumes, you can justify the expense of control strips and a densitometer.

You don't need that level of precision (unless you do). Any change will be small and incremental, and can be monitored by just careful observation every few rolls.

This kind of makes life more complicated than necessary. Is this generally true for all replenished developers including Adox MQ Borax?

The reason that using X-Tol in a replenishment regime makes as much sense for low volume users as it does is that one can monitor it satisfactorily without the need for control strips and a densitometer.
As long as your working strength solution volume isn't just the bare minimum, any change that occurs will be gradual and of a low order of magnitude, but easily observable with a careful eye.
The changes are small enough that they can be dealt with in the same way that one would do with all the other relatively small effect variables that one must deal with - water quality variations, variations in agitation routines, subject matter and lighting variations, shutter speed variations, etc. - when one is developing a variety of film. Most of those variables are just as prevalent in a one-shot approach.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Thanks for the valuable advice. It's pretty amazing that you have a working solution of XTOL that's 3 years old. I tossed my working solution after a year because I thought it reached is useful life. I'll add 80ml/per 80 sq inches.

I do agree XTOL is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm not really a low-volume user, but an interrupted one. I have a cottage and spend a lot of time there, but do not lug my developer up with me when I go. That means my Xtol-R can be idle for long periods. When I get back home the darkroom is my "Man Cave" for many hours. One of the main reasons I tried Xtol as a replenishment regime was that I have an old Yankee 4X5 tank that takes a very, very large volume of developer. I certainly didn't want to dump that volume of developer (one shot) down the drain every time I processed my 4x5 negs. I'm just a tad bit Dutch and being able to save most of the developer each time made me smile. Now I have the SP-445 tank that requires much smaller amounts of developer, but I still use the Replenishing regime. Why? Just because I am really impressed with the results and the simplicity of it all. Oh, and the Dutch part also helps. JohnW

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I'm not really a low-volume user, but an interrupted one. I have a cottage and spend a lot of time there, but do not lug my developer up with me when I go. That means my Xtol-R can be idle for long periods. When I get back home the darkroom is my "Man Cave" for many hours. One of the main reasons I tried Xtol as a replenishment regime was that I have an old Yankee 4X5 tank that takes a very, very large volume of developer. I certainly didn't want to dump that volume of developer (one shot) down the drain every time I processed my 4x5 negs. I'm just a tad bit Dutch and being able to save most of the developer each time made me smile. Now I have the SP-445 tank that requires much smaller amounts of developer, but I still use the Replenishing regime. Why? Just because I am really impressed with the results and the simplicity of it all. Oh, and the Dutch part also helps. JohnW

I know about those Yankee Agitanks. They use a LOT of developer. Not bad if you fill the rack with the full 12 sheets of film. I'm pretty frugal too because I'm Chinese. It pains me to throw out something that I could use again. Not only that, used/seasoned developer looks better too. Cheers!

 

[Maris]

My batch of Xtol was mixed in 2007 and has been replenished ever since at the rate of 90ml per film. I do a lot of open tray developing and the higher replenishment rate counters the slightly increased oxidation. Developer activity is less than a fresh mix but has stabilised after the first 20 or so films and hasn't changed in years. For example N (normal) development for Tmax 400 is 11m15s @ 68F every time.

 

[John Wiegerink]

My batch of Xtol was mixed in 2007 and has been replenished ever since at the rate of 90ml per film. I do a lot of open tray developing and the higher replenishment rate counters the slightly increased oxidation. Developer activity is less than a fresh mix but has stabilised after the first 20 or so films and hasn't changed in years. For example N (normal) development for Tmax 400 is 11m15s @ 68F every time.

Maris,
Do you have to filter yours from time to time? When I mix my new batch I think I'm going to run some of the old developer through a coffee filter and add some of it to the new batch so as to speed up the seasoning. I really think Kodak hit a home run with Xtol and I was lucky enough to be in the stands to catch it. JohnW

 

[K-G]

Maris,
Do you have to filter yours from time to time? When I mix my new batch I think I'm going to run some of the old developer through a coffee filter and add some of it to the new batch so as to speed up the seasoning. I really think Kodak hit a home run with Xtol and I was lucky enough to be in the stands to catch it. JohnW

When I start a developing session, I always filter the amount of solution that I am going to use. I keep it in a 10 l can ( about 2,5 US gallon ) and I started writing developing dates on the can for a litle more than three years ago. It is older than that and after more than 15 registered developing sessions , it still performs perfectly. The can is heavy duty plastic and every time when I replenish , I fill it up to the edge and let it overflow a litle before closing it absolutely air tight. I think the combination of a large volume, a minimum of air exposure, using deionised water when mixing and storage at room temperature in the darkroom helps extending its lifetime.

Karl-Gustaf

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

My batch of Xtol was mixed in 2007 and has been replenished ever since at the rate of 90ml per film. I do a lot of open tray developing and the higher replenishment rate counters the slightly increased oxidation. Developer activity is less than a fresh mix but has stabilised after the first 20 or so films and hasn't changed in years. For example N (normal) development for Tmax 400 is 11m15s @ 68F every time.

Dude! you're my replenishing hero!

 

[Maris]

Maris,
Do you have to filter yours from time to time? When I mix my new batch I think I'm going to run some of the old developer through a coffee filter and add some of it to the new batch so as to speed up the seasoning. I really think Kodak hit a home run with Xtol and I was lucky enough to be in the stands to catch it. JohnW

Yes, I filter the stock Xtol about once a year. The local tap water is very soft but eventually I see a fine whitish precipitate which is possibly calcium ascorbate. I use Harris coffee filters - cheapest I could find.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Maris,
I was hoping you had found a way to keep your stock Xtol clean without filtering. I guess I'll keep wasting coffee filters every six months or so. Not a big deal and certainly nothing that's going to stop me from using Xtol-R. I'm mixing a fresh batch, but I'll keep my 3+ year old batch just to see how long I can keep it going. At my age it might outlast me. I can always "Will" it to my granddaughter since she is starting to become interested in photography. JohnW

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Maris,
I was hoping you had found a way to keep your stock Xtol clean without filtering. I guess I'll keep wasting coffee filters every six months or so. Not a big deal and certainly nothing that's going to stop me from using Xtol-R. I'm mixing a fresh batch, but I'll keep my 3+ year old batch just to see how long I can keep it going. At my age it might outlast me. I can always "Will" it to my granddaughter since she is starting to become interested in photography. JohnW

You can make your XTOL a family heirloom.

 

[mshchem]

Maris,
I was hoping you had found a way to keep your stock Xtol clean without filtering. I guess I'll keep wasting coffee filters every six months or so. Not a big deal and certainly nothing that's going to stop me from using Xtol-R. I'm mixing a fresh batch, but I'll keep my 3+ year old batch just to see how long I can keep it going. At my age it might outlast me. I can always "Will" it to my granddaughter since she is starting to become interested in photography. JohnW

You need a very large centrifuge.

 

[mshchem]

Seriously, vacuum filtration through a thick fiberglass filter would take a couple of minutes. Nalgene makes a little water aspirator that pulls a pretty hard vacuum.