Why don't they make flash with auto mode that uses a sensor on the flash any more.

[btaylor]

They also have a trigger voltage high enough to fry just about any camera; use radio triggered only!

Which is why I always use the Wein Safe Sync on my digi cams, slips between the hot shoe and the flash unit.

 

[Chan Tran]

Which is why I always use the Wein Safe Sync on my digi cams, slips between the hot shoe and the flash unit.

The Wein Safe Sync is more expensive than most of the flashes that have the Auto mode. Besides if the flash has low sync voltage the safe sync doesn't work. I check the voltage if it's too high I only use it on camera that can take the high voltage like the Pentax KX or Nikon FM I mentioned in the original post.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There is a lot of reasons to keep your SB-800. It's the flash that is compatible to all 3 types of Nikon TTL cameras. It's the most powerful Nikon flash unit. Newer ones like SB-900, SB-910 and SB-5000 have a bit less power and not compatible with d-TTL or film camrera TTL.

The Nikon SB-800 is also fully compatible with the Nikon Z7ii digital camera.

 

[reddesert]

Here's a speculation. The auto flash mode works by setting a fixed aperture on the camera and letting the flash do the metering. I agree that it is convenient and generally reliable if not as theoretically accurate as TTL. Some manufacturers started leaving it off when TTL flash metering became common - that's generally accepted, not speculation.

The speculative part is that the auto flash mode is easy to use for people who have cameras with manual exposure mode, or are used to finding and setting the manual mode, but is less intuitive for people who grew up with program mode cameras, and that's why these flashes disappeared from the market. Because you have to set the aperture on the camera (M or A mode), and also insure that the camera shoots at an X-sync speed (easiest in M mode). It's a little weird that there are popular 3rd party flashes like the Yongnuo that shoot in manual flash GN mode, which is still more work than auto flash, so I can't fully account for why today's users haven't all figured auto flash out.

 

[wiltw]

It's a little weird that there are popular 3rd party flashes like the Yongnuo that shoot in manual flash GN mode, which is still more work than auto flash, so I can't fully account for why today's users haven't all figured auto flash out.

If you notice photo forum activity in general, there is far far less discussion about the principles behind the use of flash now, compared to even 10 years ago...folks simply do not care to learn because their digital camera TTL does all the thinking for them....even flash use in P mode! Much like few bother to learn to drive a stick shift transmission, because the transmission does all the thinking for them. I used to answer a dozen or more questions a week about flash use...now I can go dozens of weeks without finding a question to answer!

 

[BrianShaw]

I hope forum activity, this forum and others, isn’t fully representative of what today’s photographers know about photography. It seems that often very basic questions are asked on forums by folks who are expanding their photographic horizons in lieu of self-education by reading, researching, and “figuring out the answer to the question/problem”. Some like to say this is a generational phenomenon. Quite likely it is also associated with the preponderance of “the camera/device does all of the thinking” device, as mentioned by Wiltw. I’m not sure but it still seems that there are more photographers who know the basics, including flash usage, than there are who don’t.

 

[wiltw]

I hope forum activity, this forum and others, isn’t fully representative of what today’s photographers know about photography. It seems that often very basic questions are asked on forums by folks who are expanding their photographic horizons in lieu of self-education by reading, researching, and “figuring out the answer to the question/problem”. Some like to say this is a generational phenomenon. Quite likely it is also associated with the preponderance of “the camera/device does all of the thinking” device, as mentioned by Wiltw. I’m not sure but it still seems that there are more photographers who know the basics, including flash usage, than there are who don’t.

...until we age out and vanish from the Earth!

 

[koraks]

It seems that often very basic questions are asked on forums by folks who are expanding their photographic horizons in lieu of self-education by reading, researching, and “figuring out the answer to the question/problem”. Some like to say this is a generational phenomenon.

If this were the case, then I'd expect Photrio and other forums to be flooded with 20- and 30-somethings asking loads of very basic questions. In reality, the demography of forums like these seems to exist predominantly of pensioners who like to discuss in great detail often arcane topics.

Something doesn't add up about your statement - sadly, because it would be great IMO if we could help all those younger people with their basic questions.

 

[miha]

Something doesn't add up about your statement - sadly, because it would be great IMO if we could help all those younger people with their basic questions.

Sad, but newcomers on the forum are often not treated kindly, especially when they ask basic questions, so they end up leaving after their first thread. It’s something I’ve seen happen before.

 

[Chan Tran]

Sad, but newcomers on the forum are often not treated kindly, especially when they ask basic questions, so they end up leaving after their first thread. It’s something I’ve seen happen before.

I don't see newcomers being treated unkindly. Often the newcomer asked a question and being a newcomer he/she doesn't provide sufficient details for good answer. Then the other member while trying to help asked questions back to verify. The newcomers then feel offended and didn't give the answer but just leave. Many people feel, I asked the question. Just answer it. Don't ask me any question.

 

[miha]

Of course, we've seen such situations occur, but there have also been many instances like the one I described above.

 

[Chan Tran]

But my question goes back to why manufacturers don't make auto flash with built in sensor. They seems to work well for me and can be used with just about any cameras. If you use TTL you have to get different flash unit (or at least adapter) to work with different brands and often I don't find TTL work better than auto flash with sensor on the flash.
Most new flashes today do provide good manual power controls but that's only good in a setup situation not much good for quick on camera flash uses.

 

[miha]

But my question goes back to why manufacturers don't make auto flash with built in sensor. They seems to work well for me and can be used with just about any cameras. If you use TTL you have to get different flash unit (or at least adapter) to work with different brands and often I don't find TTL work better than auto flash with sensor on the flash.
Most new flashes today do provide good manual power controls but that's only good in a setup situation not much good for quick on camera flash uses.

I guess it's because there isn’t a large enough market to justify the extra cost of including a thyristor.

 

[koraks]

including a thyristor.

A thyristor, IGBT or simply a MOSFET is part of any modern flash. What's missing is a sensor circuit that autonomously cuts flash power when the set illumination level is reached. I guess this is missing mostly because TTL systems are so far superior and, conversely, there's little added value to a more rudimentary and failure-prone system. So that's likely why manufacturers don't bother with adding a separate sensing circuit and the required software.

 

[Chan Tran]

A thyristor, IGBT or simply a MOSFET is part of any modern flash. What's missing is a sensor circuit that autonomously cuts flash power when the set illumination level is reached. I guess this is missing mostly because TTL systems are so far superior and, conversely, there's little added value to a more rudimentary and failure-prone system. So that's likely why manufacturers don't bother with adding a separate sensing circuit and the required software.

In theory TTL is superior but in practice I don't find it better. I actually get more consistent exposure without TTL. I hope what I am going to say next doesn't make it the wrong forum but with digital TTL has to do preflash which can cause the undesirable delay.

 

[miha]

A thyristor, IGBT or simply a MOSFET is part of any modern flash.

Yes, you're right, but I was using a generalized term. I should have specifically mentioned auto thyristor.

 

[wiltw]

But my question goes back to why manufacturers don't make auto flash with built in sensor. They seems to work well for me and can be used with just about any cameras. If you use TTL you have to get different flash unit (or at least adapter) to work with different brands and often I don't find TTL work better than auto flash with sensor on the flash.
Most new flashes today do provide good manual power controls but that's only good in a setup situation not much good for quick on camera flash uses.

Sadly, it seems that digital TTL has its shortcomings compared to film TTL...in the case of Canon's eTTL I would find it would often suddenly start to overexpose shots with full power output in spite of the camera measuring the preflash and commanding fractional output. I would often put my Metz flash in photosensor Auto mode in those circumstances, because of its consistency of exposure accuracy. Too bad Metz went out of the flash business; they were king of the flash hill 30-40 years ago!

 

[BrianShaw]

If this were the case, then I'd expect Photrio and other forums to be flooded with 20- and 30-somethings asking loads of very basic questions. In reality, the demography of forums like these seems to exist predominantly of pensioners who like to discuss in great detail often arcane topics.

Something doesn't add up about your statement - sadly, because it would be great IMO if we could help all those younger people with their basic questions.

Oh, I see what you are doing. Nitpicking on the word “often” and interpreting it statistically rather than reading past it for the intent. Okay, fair enough. Replace “often” with “when”…

Seems like this is part of the observation related to those incidents, however frequent or infrequent they may be, that frustrates folks. Sometimes simple questions are met with convoluted answers, which may be correct but…

 

[koraks]

No, I think you're painting an overly pessimistic image of people. They still figure things out on their own. We see this all the time in the form of thousands of people browsing Photrio threads on a daily basis. They don't ask, for the most part. They drop Hy while doing research, most of the time they find what they need, and they move on. You're falling victim to an observation bias.

 

[BrianShaw]

Whatever…. I wear corrective lenses rather than rose-colored glasses… and try not to cast judgement in public on others. There’s a fine line between offering a counter argument and counter attack. Please stop making retorts personal and I’ll do the same. I know for a fact that some folks have left specifically due to this, including me but I keep making the mistake of coming back.

Bye.

 

[koraks]

There’s a fine line between offering a counter argument and counter attack.

No, I don't think its a very fine line, and I think it's also evident that I'm offering a civil argument that just happens to be in disagreement with yours. No big deal. Have a good weekend.

 

[BradS]

The question posed by the OP struck me as interesting if only because, I hadn't noticed (I have a box full of old speed lights). I guess it is just another example of something we had assumed would "always" be available.

It's also kinda interesting that interest in speed lights seems to have greatly diminished compared to say, ten years ago. I remember when there was a seemingly large and thriving strobist community. Is there still?

To the OP, have you considered using "proper" studio lights? I don't know if they're still available but I'm thinking of products like Alien Bees and Dynalite. As far as on-camera flassh goes, I'm still happily using my old Vivitar 285HV and Nikon SB-16 Speedlights.

 

[Angarian]

In theory TTL is superior but in practice I don't find it better. I actually get more consistent exposure without TTL.

That is interesting and surprising to me.
Because I have made exactly the opposite experience in the Nikon system:
Especially with introducing the 3D flash metering system with the F90/N90 in 1992 I've seen a really huge step forward with TTL metering compared to the auto mode with the metering sensor built-in the flash.
Metering and exposure results became so much better and more precise with the 3D system. The difference was so significant that from that time on I stopped using flash with my older Nikon manual SLRs, and used flash exclusively with the F90, later F5, F100, F80, F6.
The F6 with i-TTL is the top-performer in that regard: brillant results!

That the results are so much better is not surprising, if you look at the physical background: Light is loosing intensity by quadruple in meters. So if you double the distance, light intensity of flash is reduced down to 1/4.
The 3D system is metering both the distance to your subject and the needed flash power, and so you get exactly the needed value.
The built-in sensor in A mode in a flash cannot do that.

My suggestion for solving your problem:
1) Look on the used market for one of the top flashes who still have the in-built sensor, like Metz MZ-54, Nikon SB-800 etc.
There are thousands on the used markets. And these top-flashes are very robust and long-lasting. My oldest is over 35 years old, and still running flawlessly.
2) Use the best tool for the job, be flexible and pragmatic: For flash photography the modern SLRs just work much better than the older ones in my experience.
I would not recommend for example a F2 or FM for flash photography. Better to use a F90/F90X, F5, F100, F80, F6.
And an F90X or F80 can be bought on the used market for ridiculous low prices. Same for the AF-D or AF G lenses.

 

[wiltw]

I guess it's because there isn’t a large enough market to justify the extra cost of including a thyristor.

All flash units have a thyristor...its function is simply to shunt unused electricity back to the storage capacitor, decreasing the recycle time of the flash unit when fractional power is what is needed.
Auto mode flash merely needs a Photosensor and supporting circuitry to measure reflected light and command the thyristor to shunt electricity when proper exposure is achieved.

 

[wiltw]

The question posed by the OP struck me as interesting if only because, I hadn't noticed (I have a box full of old speed lights). I guess it is just another example of something we had assumed would "always" be available.

It's also kinda interesting that interest in speed lights seems to have greatly diminished compared to say, ten years ago. I remember when there was a seemingly large and thriving strobist community. Is there still?

To the OP, have you considered using "proper" studio lights? I don't know if they're still available but I'm thinking of products like Alien Bees and Dynalite. I'm still happily using my old Vivitar 285HV and Nikon SB-16 speedlights.

The world changed because of the low cost stuff coming out of China, which eliminated Auto mode and left only TTL mode. Vendors like Metz and Dynalite went out of business, and outfits like Buff have seen their business volume drop significantly...as evidenced by threads about Godox but few about Alien Bee (compared to past decades) Folks buy on price, they ignore the need for spare parts or after-sale repair support.
Meanwhile, I continue to use my Dynalite stuff for studio work and Metz stuff for event work...sadly, now getting service or parts has devolved to the level of Godox; in retirement it matters less.