What would you like to see in a plotting program?

[Stephen Benskin]

I've recently gone back and started playing with some plotting programs I wrote several years back. There were a number of functions that I included because of personal and professional needs, but I've been thinking about adding more bells and whistles to really trick the programs out. So, I would be interested in any suggestions people might have for what they would like to see in a film and paper plotting program. What do you like or dislike about Phil Davis' Winplotter program. What would you change if anything?

 

[ic-racer]

First, a good user interface with easy data entry
Second, an 'import' function.
Third, automatic interpolation to find 0.1 intersection.
Fourth, a number of ways to determine slope, gamma, contrast index, etc, give the user a choice, based on the shape of things or user's preference.
Fifth, Jpeg export of the graphic (so they can be posted here ! )
Sixth, an easy way to superimpose curves for side-by-side comparison.
Seventh, an easy way to export curve data for sharing among software users.
Eighth (should be first ) Macintosh compatibility.

 

[pgomena]

Make it work on a Mac!

Peter Gomena

 

[L Gebhardt]

What ic-racer said, though I have been thinking about making one that is run on the web. That way a large database of curves could be publicly available.

However, working on a Mac would be second best.

 

[Denis R]

easy

an easy button!
full documentation
easy mode and expert mode

 

[msage]

To work on a Mac!

 

[frdrx]

For me it would have to be:

(1) released under a free software license (such as the GPL), and​

(2) compatible with GNU/Linux.​

 

[payral]

Just like Phil Davis' Winplotter program but working on Mac

 

[dancqu]

Will working on a Mac put it on the iPad?

 

[largeformat pat]

GPL, A simple "Open office Calculator" format.

 

[arigram]

Yeah, if you can, keep it open source and cross-platform, so it can work in all kinds of devices, not just those owned by Microsoft and Apple, which includes quite a lot of smartphones, tablets and netbooks.

 

[Stephen Benskin]

I'm not good enough of a programmer to do multiple platforms. I only work in Visual Basic and am rusty at that. However, I wouldn't turn down help from someone who can help. What would you like to see the program do other then just plot? One of the reasons why I decided to write my own plotting program is because the Winplotter didn't have the functions I needed, like actual log-H or a quadrant for the camera/flare curve.

 

[BetterSense]

For me it would have to be:

(1) released under a free software license (such as the GPL), and

(2) compatible with GNU/Linux.

same here

 

[ic-racer]

I'm not good enough of a programmer to do multiple platforms. I only work in Visual Basic and am rusty at that. However, I wouldn't turn down help from someone who can help. What would you like to see the program do other then just plot? One of the reasons why I decided to write my own plotting program is because the Winplotter didn't have the functions I needed, like actual log-H or a quadrant for the camera/flare curve.

I wish I had kept up with programming. I did a number of shareware Mac programs in the pre-Web era. I was posting on the old 'info-mac' archives. I also spent time at the NIH in Bethesda working on a mac based image analysis program of my own design (not NIH-Image, but a competitor). At the time I was using Object-C.

I wanted to do a film-curve analysis program back then but I stumbled onto a Mac plotting program (c)1991 that I have been using ever since. I have an old i-mac that I keep up just to run that program for film curve analysis.

Two years ago I tried to write a macro in Excel to fit and solve a polynomial to a film curve to get the 0.1 intersection, but ran into a number of problems (like multiple solutions, etc). I have an old copy of MATHEMATICA, and bet that could do it, but I forgot how to use its programing language. So, I went back to just eyeballing it on the monitor. I use a fine grid on my plotter program and the magnify tool.

It would be great to have software that would run on a newer Mac.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Steve

I don't see you getting your question answered. You are asking about functionality, and the answers are mostly about compatibility. Maybe, it helps to post a screen shot of what you've got.

I've seen it and it looks great as is, but I'm hoping for:

1. input for 21 and 31 step tablet data
2. customizable density for speed points (not just 0.1)

OK, here are my 2 cents on compatibility too:
Maybe, you can find a Mac programmer here on APUG. Mac programmers typically create the interface first to produce a software skeleton, which is then populated with the actual working code. Modern compilers can produce Mac and Windows compatible code. iPhone and iPad versions would be gizmos. This work needs a real computer with all typical input and output devices.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Steve - I seem to remember it needing more flexibilty in step table input, like Ralph said different step ranges.

4 quadrant output is really cool.

The ability to overly/plot simultaneously several curves (say up to 5 film tests).

I'd like the ability to do plots of color slides and then calcs for film speed and contrast.

I'll take a look at the old version I've got and see what else I'd suggest - it's been too long.

 

[pgomena]

Ooh, yeah, what Kirk says about being able to overlay curves from different tests!

Peter Gomena

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I wanted to do a film-curve analysis program back then but I stumbled onto a Mac plotting program (c)1991 that I have been using ever since. I have an old i-mac that I keep up just to run that program for film curve analysis.

ic-racer,

Would you mind telling us what program you're referring to?

Tom

 

[ic-racer]

ic-racer,

Would you mind telling us what program you're referring to?

Tom

Something like "omnigraph" I'll check.

 

[Curt]

Make it work on an iPhone.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Make sure it does not work on an iPhone or iPad, or did I say that already?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Something like "omnigraph" I'll check.

Cricket Graph?

 

[sanking]

I would like input for 21 and 31 step tablet data as Ralph already mentioned. Overlay of curves from different film tests would also be neat.

Would like to have compatibility with MAC OSX system but not a big deal. I currently have a netbook with 3g capability that I use for the Plotter program so I am ok if the program works on Windows XP.

Sandy King

 

[GraemeMitchell]

Web based w/ a open archive and overlay would be so cool. Sort of the massive dev chart of curves.

 

[Stephen Benskin]

I've attached a low res screen shot of the film family of curves part of the program. This section is used for analysis of the film curves. The data input section (not pictured) produces some of the basic information like fixed density and Delta-X film speed, a variation of CI, and Ilford's average gradient. In this section, you can investigate the individual curves in more detail. You can adjust the Subject Luminance Range, flare value, exposure placement, and density range.

There is a Zone value function. There's also an interesting function designed for use in commercial labs. Many photographers will snip a roll of film, judge the snip, and adjust the development for the balance. After choosing a density from the strip and what density you want the balance to be, this feature will extrapolate the development time required to achieve the target density.

One of the primary functions of the family of curves is the determination of development times. It will take the variables for desired negative density range, the subject luminance range considered average, and the average value of flare and extrapolate using the CI/Time and CI/EFI curves -3 to +3 development times for a given film. It also gives the film speed for each time in fixed density film speeds and Delta-X film speeds. It also uses three different ways to calculate the times - Fixed flare, variable flare, and a method I call the Practical flare model of development. It is a combination of the fixed and variable flare models which I believe better reflects the preferred film/paper matching that Jones saw in his tests.

The single curve in the attachment shows both the resulting density range from a 2.2 subject luminance range with no flare and the DR range feature (the red lines) which will indicate the subject luminance range required to produce the desired density range for that curve which in this example is 1.05.

There is section that does similar analysis with paper curves, and a section with a four quadrant reproduction curve that is in need of much work to get it working again.

There have been a number of good suggestions so far. Thank-you.