What Makes it art, when it simply could be a snapshot?

[markbarendt]

Re: Keithwms
nope , -
it is not about photojournalism
here is a great sample of documentary art photography
http://blog.ricecracker.net/2010/02/24/cartier-bresson-kertesz-koudelka/

HCB? Really? Again you bring old ideas. Sure great work so what. You think we don't know about HCB?

Why is it that you keep underestimating us and insulting our skills and our education in these matters?

As to Sirius, I like Sirius.

 

[keithwms]

HCB was not merely a documentary photographer; you have to realize how many times he reworked things, something that wasn't uncovered until fairly recently. It was a complete myth that he just shot at the right moment and moved on. And he spent the latter stages of his life painting.... all of these things point to guidance from inner concepts.

Anyway, everybody does their own thing or they do someone else's. Your choice.

 

[dehk]

I quit debating if i make art or not, all I know is that I capture lights, one moment at a time, you live easier that way.

 

[removed account4]

sorry for the repost ....

Re:jnanian
Camera with lens is a Precise Device capturing reality -whatever you say . Like 2+2= 4 .

i didn't say that, YOU said that.
you never asked me what i thought ...
there is more to photography than a box with a lens, much more ...

Open your family album and find your grandparents portrait - what could be more amazing than history ? is it Documentary ?
Genres are Secondary .

nope, those are snapshots, not art ... that is what the point of this thread is
the difference between art and a snapshot ... and according to what you
wrote ( and did you delete it ? ) you would need additional education
to be able to appreciate those "snapshots" ... because according to you
those snapshots are "conceptual photographs" .... if genres are secondary,
why do you keep putting things in genres / pigeonholes

 

[JS MD]

Re:jnanian
Stephen Shore is a fine art photographer with unique vision of conceptual american style in Documentary Photography
***********************************

 

[removed account4]

yes, he is ... i never said otherwise.

 

[Aristophanes]

Re: jovo
World of Modern Fine Art very complicated ... most important genre of Photography is Documentary [because of nature of Photography] . Time & People . Real Life as it is . Conceptual Photography very close to Photo essay . When photographer discover our life through introversion
Re: MarkBarendt
I do have worst than Holga . Cheers

"real life as it is"?

Whoa!

Like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the act of taking a photo can alter the subject. People pose and fake for the camera routinely. The photographer's perspective is just that, a selection of what the photographer wants to see, bound by technology.

 

[JS MD]

Re: Greg Davis
" All photographs are a lie "
..............this is a BS
***
Camera and lens are perfect

Just photographers are crazy

 

[Gerald C Koch]

You could define art as anything that someone is trying to make money from its sale. But your wile is correct, these pictures are mere snapshots. Nothing great or cerebral here.

 

[pbromaghin]

Just because it's art, doesn't mean it isn't ugly or that one must like it.

 

[JS MD]

sounds reasonable - you don't like Hip-Hop or Rap - that's fine . Just don't say it is a crap

 

[JS MD]

I respect it

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

There are photographs. Then there's 'other stuff'. I call them 'pictures', or 'print' if it's on paper. Simple catch-all phrases. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be? Fancy label, maybe?
Like, would you pay the same amount of money for a Leica camera, if it didn't say on it anywhere that it was a Leica? I'll bet you some say they wouldn't care and others would be reluctant. That's the problem with labeling something - it's difficult to agree what the label should be.

 

[removed account4]

Re: Greg Davis
" All photographs are a lie "
..............this is a BS
***
Camera and lens are perfect

Just photographers are crazy

why is this BS ???

and why are photographers crazy ???

 

[removed account4]

sounds reasonable - you don't like Hip-Hop or Rap - that's fine . Just don't say it is a crap

i have opinions based on my experience, but you have suggested (with photography at least)
that opinions are not valid unless you have the background
knowledge to form an opinion, so, i haven't taken the necessary music appreciation courses to acquire
the knowledge to form a valid opinion whether or not hip hop or rap is (c)rap or not.

 

[Steve Smith]

i haven't taken the necessary music appreciation courses to acquire
the knowledge to form a valid opinion whether or not hip hop or rap is (c)rap or not.

Neither have I but I do have an opinion!


Steve.

 

[removed account4]

Neither have I but I do have an opinion!


Steve.

but steve, is it a valid opinion ?

previous posts in this thread ( like others
over the past few weeks ) have suggested
that without the "proper" background experience
( job as a professional photographer ) or educational experience
( book reading knowledge ) a lay-person's opinions can't be as valid
as those opinions made by someone with the "proper credentials" ...

i too have opinions but unfortunately my credentials invalidate them

:munch:

 

[Steve Smith]

i too have opinions but unfortunately my credentials invalidate them

So do mine then. Or my lack of credentials.

A phrase I heard once: "You don't need to be a chicken to spot a bad egg."

On a related note, I work as an electronic and mechanical design engineer. However (shock, horror, etc.) I don't have an engineering degree. I have been told in the past that I shouldn't be allowed to refer to myself as an engineer without a degree but as far as I am concerned, if I do engineering, I am an engineer.

In the same way that I am a photographer when photographing, and a plumber when plumbing, etc. All of these without a piece of paper to prove that I can do it.


Steve.

 

[markbarendt]

but steve, is it a valid opinion ?

previous posts in this thread ( like others
over the past few weeks ) have suggested
that without the "proper" background experience
( job as a professional photographer ) or educational experience
( book reading knowledge ) a lay-person's opinions can't be as valid
as those opinions made by someone with the "proper credentials" ...

i too have opinions but unfortunately my credentials invalidate them

:munch:

The established system wants us to "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" and believe that we can't know or do anything without them.

What they really want is for us to buy their stuff without really thinking and they don't really care if we enjoy it.

Look at what happened to the music industry over the past ten years, publishing is going through those huge changes too because of the eBook. The little guy no longer needs a big organization, the old "educated" market maker's worlds (business modles) are becoming irrelevant.

 

[removed account4]

steve, greg and mark -

i agree with the 3 of you 100% ...
it is unfortunate that there will always
be an element that suggests "lay people"
are incapable of having a valid opinion ...

just other day there was a story in the news
about a 4 year old who has a show in nyc of her
abstract expressionist paintings.
they failed to mention the gallery that was
showing her work was a gallery that people
pay thousands of dollars to, in order to have a show.
( vanity gallery )...
her paintings weren't bad, they sell for $27K ...

but i would have rather bought the paintings done by elephants

 

[JS MD]

Re: incapable of having a valid opinion /? /

This is wrong turn
If your prints has a stains - are you going to ask for advice a bus driver or janitor ?

This isn't an Exhibition- where all comments are welcome
This Thread is very specific / professional /
*********

 

[markbarendt]

Re: incapable of having a valid opinion /? /

This is wrong turn
If your prints has a stains - are you going to ask for advice a bus driver or janitor ?

What bearing does anyone's day job have on that?

There are, I am sure, bus drivers who are very talented and very capable in our craft.

Many of us here practice photography as highly skilled amateurs.

Our day job has no bearing on our ability to answer that question.

This isn't an Exhibition- where all comments are welcome
This Thread is very specific / professional /
*********

The question is

• (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Are you saying that it has to be professional to be considered art?

 

[JS MD]

sure , there are highly skilled and talanted amateurs - let's say 5 % of DPUG and 50% of APUG .
Photography is a great hobby .
I've seen a talanted plumbers and drivers , - as exception - but not a rule
***
It is good to be professional - so you don't need to ask your wife about Para aminophenol

 

[zsas]

So you are saying that 50% of the amateur photographers on apug are not talented?

How did you arrive at this sweeping (backhanded compliment) generalization?

 

[removed account4]

Re: incapable of having a valid opinion /? /

This is wrong turn
If your prints has a stains - are you going to ask for advice a bus driver or janitor ?

*********

i know many people who are not professional photographers
who are better photographers and artists than those who do it for their day job
(many of them can be found here on apug ! )
and i am more than happy to ask them questions about my prints ...

This isn't an Exhibition- where all comments are welcome
This Thread is very specific / professional /

*********

no, this is a thread on a photography website filled with
people from all walks of life, some professional photographers
and some non-professional photographers ...
the question that started this thread is a questions about OPINION it has nothing to do with
professions or professional opinion ...
and all comments ARE WELCOME