What Makes it art, when it simply could be a snapshot?

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by hoffy, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. OP
    OP
    hoffy

    hoffy Subscriber

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    That is Oh so true Steve. The best engineers are those who have gotten a trade first in their youth. I have worked in the metal trades (I worked as a fitter/machinist for the first 10 years of my working life) and it was quite obvious when something was designed by a wet behind the ears from high school to uni to work engineer.....

    Anyhow, I see the "I am a Professional, I am right" attitude has popped up again. My question was answered a month ago, but some people can't seem to help themselves. While I have accepted that the imagery can be viewed as art, this is my own personal opinion. Others don't share that and more power to them, as they are just as entitled to an opinion as me, the bus driver or the janitor...or the pro (even if they are a pro janitor)
     
  2. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Ditto. I was exercising restraint by not saying so. That is why I stopped responding to his rants. If he keeps it up I will put him on my ignore list.

    Steve
     
  3. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    the strange thing is
    JS MD is neither a professional photographer
    nor a art historian, but a doctor ( guessing from username )
    but against her/his own argument, her/his opinions matter more than the rest of
    the lay-people here on apug ?
    and there are MFAs, art historians and working professional photographers
    responding in this thread whose opinions are worthless ...

    :whistling:
     
  4. philosomatographer

    philosomatographer Member

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    Ah, the recurring "what makes a photograph art" thread - second only to the "Film vs. Digital" thread in it's persistence!

    In my opinion, art is like Love - nobody universally agrees on a single definition. I must say, I am personally disgusted that such poorly composes snapshots are even listed on a site that uses the (pretentious) term "Fine Art". At most they might have some historical significance as being rather old colour photographs, depicting aspects of a society that has since changed. But that is true of most photographs depicting any human relics or activity, I think.

    So - not to say that snapshots cannot be immensely interesting, but I really do feel that the "craft" bit needs to play a role in "art" (it is a "labour" of love, after all)...

    It's all marketing and hype in my opinion. I'd be damn thrilled if somebody would sell my careless snapshots for lots of money though!
     
  5. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    You have my agreement to the fullest extent.

    'You can't polish a turd', some say. Well, first you have to define what a turd is, and that's where we all disagree. Even the term 'photograph' is subjective, because we can't agree what constitutes a 'photograph' in terms of how it was captured, and what was done to it in processing before it's displayed (as a print or digital representation online). Now to try to agree on what's 'art' takes it to yet another level of subjective interpretation. To argue about what can be considered 'art' is futile, because there will never be a reply that we all agree upon.

    This is why I simply call them 'pictures'. Nobody can argue with that, and it helps in focusing the topic of conversation on things like framing, gesture, light, color, texture, and so on, which are less subjective terms, and they fairly objectively describe the picture without getting into confusing nomenclature of how to label it.
     
  6. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    Exactly...which also gets me to the famous and highly philosophical proverb.."someone's crap is always someone else's treasure".

    The key word is, as always, "SUBJECTIVE". If it was otherwise, why would there people out there paying thousands (or even millions) for what some of us would consider crap and wouldn't pay $1 for? Is it because we are not educated enough to know what we like and can't see the intrinsic value in something that we simply don't enjoy looking at? That's total BS.
     
  7. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    philosomatographer, thomas and max

    that all sounds good,
    but do you have the credentials
    to back up your opinions ?

    :munch:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2011
  8. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    None of what I said is an opinion. :laugh: When I lay down the facts, listen up! For it is the law by which you will abide. Or the wrath of the Swedish trolls will spare no expense in tormenting you.
     
  9. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    Yeah!!!!
     
  10. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    For whom does the bell troll? It trolls for thee!
     
  11. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    Nope, sorry. :smile:
     
  12. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I am not qualified to back up my opinions!
     
  13. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    I'll remember that next time there's a discussion about the virtues of Xtol... :wink:
     
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  15. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Sure if it flows your boat! :laugh:
     
  16. lxdude

    lxdude Member

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    Will you eXtol its virtues?
     
  17. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    What virtues? :whistling:
     
  18. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    Rodinal rules, man. Xtol sucks.
     
  19. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    Finally, someone comes out with the plain, cold, hard truth! :D
     
  20. philosomatographer

    philosomatographer Member

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    Well, none other than Dead Link Removed, which, as we have just all agreed upon, is subjective :smile: What does "credentials" mean in terms of "art", in anyway?
     
  21. OP
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    hoffy

    hoffy Subscriber

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    Not sure if you have read the last 26 pages of this thread.....Some are firm believers that unless you have suitable credentials (I.E., you are a professional), you are not worthy of forming an opinion.

    Bollocks to them I say!
     
  22. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    That only applies to this thread so that I can throw the Troll a bone. :tongue:
     
  23. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    to be honest, philosomatographer, i have no idea ..
    but i am sure JS MD can enlighten us
    because according to what s/he said in this thread
    one can't have a valid opinion without the "proper credentials"
    the same thing was said in a different thread a few weeks ago

    ... maybe the respondent in this thread
    is the same person ( and a different user name/id ) as was in
    the cindy sherman thread ...

    nice work btw!

    john
     
  24. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    I saw a quote tonight from Frank Zappa which seems relevant in this thread;

    "Art is making something out of nothing and selling it."
     
  25. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Member

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    The point is - art is whatever you make of it. If you want to make ornaments out of fish hooks and worn out t-shirts and call it art, then who's to stop you? Nobody can disagree, because it's a subjective term.

    For me, I stopped thinking about it a long time ago.
    I call myself a photographer (not an artist).
    I take pictures.
    I make silver gelatin and inkjet prints.
    Very easily defined and understood.
    Why do you have to put a label on it?
     
  26. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    thanks for the quote and reminder barry ...
    i have to go to montana soon, but i can't find
    my pigmy pony ...
     
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