What is "Fine Art"?

[Pieter12]

now that's kind of hilarious considering I think if you pick a piece of trash up off the ground or photograph it in situ and say it's art, it's art.

 

[Don_ih]

maybe definitions are "time based" and they expire.

Definitions exist only for a period of time, just like everything else, and they are subject to change in more or less chaotic ways.

 

[jnamia]

View attachment 303719

exactly, PT/PD and all ...
but would anyone allowed to ask. IP if they are art or fine art ( and why ) or will you call them the art police ?
art isn't just about the thing but the conversation it is a part of, starts, punctuates or ends.

 

[VinceInMT]

nothing new. LOL. there are people on this website whose job it is to contradict people,…

Not to mention just chiming in on every thread, contributing nothing, just to get their comment count up.

 

[Sirius Glass]

View attachment 303719

Interesting but I only cared for the ones I rolled myself.

 

[Pieter12]

exactly, PT/PD and all ...
but would anyone allowed to ask. IP if they are art or fine art ( and why ) or will you call them the art police ?
art isn't just about the thing but the conversation it is a part of, starts, punctuates or ends.

The Art Police have spoken and given their blessing to Irving Penn's cigarette butts. Look at the captions. They are in museums and galleries of high standing, and offered for sale at prestigious art auctions. Even dead, he will not have to face the Art Inquisition.

 

[jnamia]

Not to mention just chiming in on every thread, contributing nothing, just to get their comment count up.

yup

The Art Police have spoken and given their blessing to Irving Penn's cigarette butts. Look at the captions. They are in museums and galleries of high standing, and offered for sale at prestigious art auctions. Even dead, he will not have to face the Art Inquisition.

Penn was already part of the discourse, he had written about his own work extensively, including this series where he elevated the lowly cigarette butt to
"high art" by printing these photographic readymades in platinum and palladium ( seemingly connecting himself to 19th century photographers, pictorialists like Garo and Dadaists like Duchamps ) and others wrote about his work too. No doubt people asked him questions and he answered them, I guess if you were there you would have made some snarky comment to the people who were interested, and said they were fascists as you've called me ? ..

I had a genuine interest in learning why KerrKid called one image fine art and the other plain old art, considering I thought the one made by hand was the fine art print, and the one by machine art, so you insult me, twice now in one thread.
are you going to follow me around in wherever I post in and troll me ?


thanks Richard!

 

[jnamia]

Definitions exist only for a period of time, just like everything else, and they are subject to change in more or less chaotic ways.

seems you are right

 

[Arthurwg]

Penn's cigarette butts were not elevated to fine art by printing with platinum and palladium, and they were not at all "readymades." Those pictures were a brilliant idea, executed with the sensibility of a genius. And if you haven't noticed, they are beautiful.

 

[Pieter12]

yup


Penn was already part of the discourse, he had written about his own work extensively, including this series where he elevated the lowly cigarette butt to
"high art" by printing these photographic readymades in platinum and palladium ( seemingly connecting himself to 19th century photographers, pictorialists like Garo and Dadaists like Duchamps ) and others wrote about his work too. No doubt people asked him questions and he answered them, I guess if you were there you would have made some snarky comment to the people who were interested, and said they were fascists as you've called me ? ..

I had a genuine interest in learning why KerrKid called one image fine art and the other plain old art, considering I thought the one made by hand was the fine art print, and the one by machine art, so you insult me, twice now in one thread.
are you going to follow me around in wherever I post in and troll me ?


thanks Richard!

?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Don't forget that the Marlboro Man was the most influential photo in history. No other image has killed more people. That must make it art.

 

[Pieter12]

Don't forget that the Marlboro Man was the most influential photo in history. No other image has killed more people. That must make it art.

Ironically, Robert Prince stole the Marlboro Man photos from ads, reproduced them and sold the blow-ups as art for millions. Marlboro never filed suit for copyright infringement and the photographers were left hanging (pun maybe intended).

ARTSY: When Richard Prince Stole the Marlboro Man

Four decades ago, an unknown, Colorado-based photographer created images that inadvertently led to widespread controversy and multi-million dollar auction prices, not to mention a new wave of nicotine addiction. Just south of Sunset Boulevard, M+B Photo is finally giving this body of work its...

www.mbphoto.com

 

[Vaughn]

so the difference between fine art and regular art is whatever the person who made them says ?
I would have imagined some sort of hierarchy ...

What is Regular Art? I never heard of it before. I am more familiar with Abnormal Art, having worked in a university art dept for a couple decades.

Following the clues of one of the most complete and competent artists I have known and whom I have worked with, instead of a Fine Art Photographer, perhaps I will just be a Photographic Artist. I think it will still serve to tell people that I don't do weddings.

 

[Pieter12]

What is Regular Art? I never heard of it before. I am more familiar with Abnormal Art, having worked in a university art dept for a couple decades.

As opposed to Outsider Art, maybe? Or Decorative Art, Applied Art, Commercial Art, Naif Art...

 

[Craig75]

exactly, and from early 1900s on the temple has been destroyed through unorthodox anti art establishment anti art anti patriarchy anti- ... and now bypassing the whole museum gallery institution "system" through the minting and sale of NFTs , .. and it is so anti establishment that the only way to purchase NFTs is through the purchase of formerly underground currencies developed for by people to launder their ill gotten gains from illicit activities .. LOL.

Did they destroy it or did the culture prove so robust that it was able to absorb and neuter it and turn it into "art" to be inserted into the canon with all the other movements

 

[Sirius Glass]

Did they destroy it or did the culture prove so robust that it was able to absorb and neuter it and turn it into "art" to be inserted into the canon with all the other movements

Art grew into the canon with all the other movements while the painterly approached an early and merciful grave. There is no need to dig that up again since it was always rotten to the core.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Fine art is whatever you define it to be.

I think the Hudson Valley School of painting is fine art.
I think concert violin is fine art.
I think Ansel Adams photography is fine art.
I think certain guitar plying styles are fine art.
I think traditional mountain Banjo styles are fine art.

By my definition, any art expression that that produces pleasing emotions are fine art.

 

[macfred]

Fine art is whatever you define it to be.

I think the Hudson Valley School of painting is fine art.
I think concert violin is fine art.
I think Ansel Adams photography is fine art.
I think certain guitar plying styles are fine art.
I think traditional mountain Banjo styles are fine art.

By my definition, any art expression that that produces pleasing emotions are fine art.

I think this is a good contribution to the discussion - congrats Grandpa Ron!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Fine art is whatever you define it to be.

I think the Hudson Valley School of painting is fine art.
I think concert violin is fine art.
I think Ansel Adams photography is fine art.
I think certain guitar plying styles are fine art.
I think traditional mountain Banjo styles are fine art.

By my definition, any art expression that that produces pleasing emotions are fine art.

But all art affects emotions. Some might be better than others in how much it does it. But that's the definition of art. So what makes it "fine"?

 

[Pieter12]

But all art affects emotions. Some might be better than others in how much it does it. But that's the definition of art. So what makes it "fine"?

Does commercial art affect your emotions? Are you moved by the Pepsi logo and the Nike "swoosh"?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Fine art is whatever you define it to be.

I think the Hudson Valley School of painting is fine art.
I think concert violin is fine art.
I think Ansel Adams photography is fine art.
I think certain guitar plying styles are fine art.
I think traditional mountain Banjo styles are fine art.

By my definition, any art expression that that produces pleasing emotions are fine art.

Actually, I'd argue that Ansel Adams has crossed over from fine art to popular art. Ask anyone who isn't a serious photographer to name a photographer, and they'll say Ansel Adams. And if you let it be known that you make black-and-white photographs, you could be doing black-and-white prints of naked women killing dolphins and you'd get introduced to strangers by non-photographers who know of your prediliction as "doing that Ansel Adams thing".

 

[DonJ]

Actually, I'd argue that Ansel Adams has crossed over from fine art to popular art. Ask anyone who isn't a serious photographer to name a photographer, and they'll say Ansel Adams. And if you let it be known that you make black-and-white photographs, you could be doing black-and-white prints of naked women killing dolphins and you'd get introduced to strangers by non-photographers who know of your prediliction as "doing that Ansel Adams thing".

Lots of fine art is popular. Are you saying it can only be one or the other?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Lots of fine art is popular. Are you saying it can only be one or the other?

No, I'm not saying it is an absolute binary.

 

[Pieter12]

Actually, I'd argue that Ansel Adams has crossed over from fine art to popular art. Ask anyone who isn't a serious photographer to name a photographer, and they'll say Ansel Adams. And if you let it be known that you make black-and-white photographs, you could be doing black-and-white prints of naked women killing dolphins and you'd get introduced to strangers by non-photographers who know of your prediliction as "doing that Ansel Adams thing".

On what planet?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Does commercial art affect your emotions? Are you moved by the Pepsi logo and the Nike "swoosh"?

Of course commercial art affects emotions. If it didn't, why would advertisers use it to sell a product? Logos create the emotion of loyalty. Loyalty to a brand. It's very powerful. People want to be associated with the Swoosh of Nike and identify with great basketball stars. A nice commercial painting of a sweating guy in the the desert drinking down a cold Pepsi creates desire to buy the product. Art in this case is power to influence. That's emotion.

Anyway, you didn't respond to my question. My question of the poster was why he thinks it has to be "fine" art that only affects emotions? All art affects emotions. That's what art is. The question is what makes it "fine"? Why is Sally Mann's photo "fine" art but mine or yours isn't "fine" art?