What is "Fine Art"?

[jnamia]

Smaller less mobile populations apparently. But they certainly were far more highly evolved and intelligent than the typical tagger or "street artist" around here

that is up for debate.

 

[DREW WILEY]

No - I'm not referring to the Australian Aborigines. Hand outlines in red ochre are almost ubiquitous worldwide where rock shelter and climate conditions allow their preservation. It's maybe one of the most universal human artistic expressions, "I was here". Wouldn't be surprised if that custom has existed over 100,000 yrs. I happen to have a brick-like slab of red ochre which still has the deep dimple impressions of fingerprints on one side, and hardened fiber brush strokes on the opposite side. It was accidentally baked into permanence by cooking fires above its own layer later on. The object is perhaps 15,000 yrs old, but otherwise impossible to precisely date because the soil there were repeatedly disturbed for millennia.

 

[DREW WILEY]

What's debatable about it, jnamia - the population makeup of Neanderthals, or the fact they were more intelligent than street taggers? Ha- the Neanderthals hung on maybe 200,000 yrs or so. A street tagger repeatedly inhaling spray can MEK and toluene is no different than a glue sniffer, and will be lucky if he makes it to 40 !

 

[Pieter12]

I've almost given up on going to photo exhibits in galleries. The current trend is for minimum lighting "to preserve the work". I saw a Linda McCartney exhibition in Australia recently and wish I had brought a flashlight. The last AA exhibition I saw in LA was horrible the lighting was so dim.
The quality of higher end photo books is such that the prints are pretty much what you would see if you were looking at original prints. I just received Kenna's new book "Northern England" and the repro is superb so I think I'll stick to books from now on until gallery curators start to "see the light"

I had the opposite experience when visiting a Jeff Wall show at the Gagosian gallery. They have ample natural light from windows and skylights and there were disturbing reflections on the acrylic surfaces of the large-scale photos, making them hard to take in from a proper viewing distance.

 

[Pieter12]

What's debatable about it, jnamia - the population makeup of Neanderthals, or the fact they were more intelligent than street taggers? Ha- the Neanderthals hung on maybe 200,000 yrs or so. A street tagger repeatedly inhaling spray can MEK and toluene is no different than a glue sniffer, and will be lucky if he makes it to 40 !

Keith Haring barely made it past 30, but it was AIDS that got him first.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

that's up for debate.


sorry for my cluelessness, but what does your post have to do with artist statements? It's a story about some lecherous, creepy 50something year old guy picking up "hot girl 1/2 his age". ... regarding AA's "artist statement" I think the Sierra Club long time affiliation was his artist statement...

Do you think the guy or his girlfriend care about artists' statements? And it's not about a lecherous old guy. It's about how and why expensive artwork gets bought. To impress others and make money. No one cares about statements except insiders and people who can't afford to buy the originals.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sad he didn't make it very far down the line. PBS recently did a feature documentary on Haring. But I can't think of another artist whose work so utterly repulses me, and which seems just so outright corny and obnoxious, and downright Kindergarten trivial if it weren't so BIG, that I couldn't even stand watching five minutes of that documentary.

 

[Pieter12]

Do you think the guy or his girlfriend care about artists' statements? And it's not about a lecherous old guy. It's about how and why expensive artwork gets bought. To impress others and make money. No one cares about statements except insiders and people who can't afford to buy the originals.

Well, the gallery or art fair booth probably cares, and so would a museum or a book publisher. The statement may never even be shared with the general public, but the artist might not have even come up for consideration for representation without an artist's statement. It's just part of the process, just like a portfolio or a resumé to get a job.

 

[Pieter12]

Sad he didn't make it very far down the line. PBS recently did a feature documentary on Haring. But I can't think of another artist whose work so utterly repulses me, and which seems just so outright corny and obnoxious, that I couldn't even stand watching five minutes of that documentary.

Wow. Repulsion is a very strong, personal, visceral response. I hope it hasn't affected your health. You should get out more often--there are many, many artists out there making work that is really, truly bad. On the other hand, stay home. It might kill you to see it.

 

[jnamia]

What's debatable about it, jnamia - the population makeup of Neanderthals, or the fact they were more intelligent than street taggers? Ha- the Neanderthals hung on maybe 200,000 yrs or so. A street tagger repeatedly inhaling spray can MEK and toluene is no different than a glue sniffer, and will be lucky if he makes it to 40 !

what debatable is that that work is better than some graffiti artists who are practicing today or practiced 20-30 years ago or Sister Corina Kent . I don't care how long Neanderthals lasted for not sure why that is relevant, or that you claim to now be a paleontologist and expert in cave painting, I guess one can add it to the other claims you have made over the internet. This set of images we interpret as art because it's mysterious, abstract, beautiful, hand made &c but it more than likely was some sort of ritualistic imagery to celebrate a successful hunt ( or something else), not specificaly produced as art art has no other purpose other than to be art ... people making " things specifically as art" came about in the 1700s. it's been written about for decades by actual scholars, philosophers and art historians who know what they are talking about and can talk and write about it better than I can type about it.

Do you think the guy or his girlfriend care about artists' statements? And it's not about a lecherous old guy. It's about how and why expensive artwork gets bought. To impress others and make money. No one cares about statements except insiders and people who can't afford to buy the originals.

now it's his girlfriend ?
it doesn't matter to me that they might or might not care about artist statements, that's there prerogative, and you already made the blanket statement that nobody cares about them. I don't doubt that they obviously knew Addams through endless sales of posters &c and his environmentalist efforts with the Sierra Club, this is his artist statement (maybe it's understood and not written). sorry I misunderstood the point of your post? to me it seemed to be about a creepy lecherous 50something year old guy who was making the moves on some woman half his age that you seemed impressed by? that's how I interpreted what you wrote. You made no mention about artist statements in your post, just the creepy situation and one pick up line bragging about how she was ripped off.

 

[KerrKid]

Has anyone defined what constitutes fine art, yet? I mean, that's fine if no one has, because it's not like anyone's going to get a fine if they don't.

 

[Arthurwg]

50 something is too young to be a "creepy old guy."

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I didn't find it to be insulting at all, just a sad statement. I am also remembering what a curator, critic, writer &c told me though, the shorter the better because people spend only about 9-15 seconds reading wall writing before they move on, I told her the same thing, I always read it! LOL
still very sad especially after the person spent months crafting just the write obscure and obtuse wordage and references to 18th century philosophers &c to make the photos of the puppies something else. oh well ...
I think people care more about the art of being a celebrity than anything else, seeing a celebrity is an art in itself.. 15 minutes and all that.

Art is supposed to be inspiring and should be able to stand on its own. Statements seem to be intellectualizing inspiration, somewhat of an oxymoron. People may spend 9-15 seconds reading a statement and only 3-5 seconds looking at the photo. When I visit a museum, reading all the little cards next to the artwork explaining things about it or the artist gets burdensome after awhile. Often there's too much to see and you'll never get through with the tour if you read everything. So the art has to stand on its own.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh, you're quite a genius, jnamia. The self-conscious concept of "Art" first came about in the 1700's? I guess you went back in a time machine and interviewed Phidias to come up with that remarkable conclusion. Some scholars might know what they were talking about. But do you even know what you're allegedly reading about? Sounds like a hopeless bluff to me. Argument just for the sake of argument. No harm, no foul; no point either.

But all of this topic is just fluff to divert a little snippet of time here and there. There never was and never will be a consistent definition of not only "fine art", but even "art" itself.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Regarding the “label” that appears next to a displayed piece of art, (and I acknowledge that even the use of “label” is controversial) I mentioned earlier here or on another thread that I find it curious that with photography it is not uncommon to see technical data such an camera model, lens, type of film, exposure data, paper used, etc., even seen on the Gallery on this site. Why is that? With other media it might note “oil on canvas” or “ink on paper” but the brand of oil, the type of brushes used, and that type of thing is generally not included.

Maybe that's because many people consider photography a craft and not art. Plus film types in particular have a palette of their own. So describing which type becomes interesting to other photographers but not the general public at large. Truth is, the public is probably more purist than photographers, looking at the photos inspirationally while we look from a technique standpoint.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I call that a good start; and a lot clearer and succinct that most. Kind of like saying "why am I doing this?" and "what exactly am I doing?"

Thanks for your comment. Actually, I was thinking of an even shorter artist statement: "My stuff."

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Most art is mundane and unimpressive. Even the "greatest" art will still not "speak to" everyone - it will impact a greater number of people and possibly deeply, though. Most art doesn't really inspire more than a glance.

As for selfies with the Mona Lisa. Everyone has seen the Mona Lisa thousands of times (although not the original). The selfie is about being in the place more than having to do with the artwork as art. It's more art as phenomenon. An experience is to be noted with a picture of your face bearing your own favourite expression.

It's like buying souvenirs of where you've been to prove you've been there. But instead of a doily with the Golden Gate Bridge embroidered on it, you take a selfie.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Since at least a short-term inclination of what serious art means is based on market trends, and the prices being paid, it will be quite interesting to see what freezing the assets of the oligarchs will do in this respect. It's certainly no secret that a distinct segment of their money laundering strategy went to family members converting cash into tangible assets - not just real estate and yachts - but a lot of expensive art pieces too. Now that their daughters aren't as likely to get multi-million dollar allowances to spend at the art auctions, those big dealers and their art fairs must be getting somewhat worried. Money to waste, combined with conspicuous consumption, is hardly a reliable thermometer by which to gauge long-term value.

 

[jnamia]

Art is supposed to be inspiring and should be able to stand on its own. Statements seem to be intellectualizing inspiration, somewhat of an oxymoron. People may spend 9-15 seconds reading a statement and only 3-5 seconds looking at the photo. When I visit a museum, reading all the little cards next to the artwork explaining things about it or the artist gets burdensome after awhile. Often there's too much to see and you'll never get through with the tour if you read everything. So the art has to stand on its own.

OK, if if you say so.

Oh, you're quite a genius, jnamia. The self-conscious concept of "Art" first came about in the 1700's? I guess you went back in a time machine and interviewed Phidias to come up with that remarkable conclusion. Some scholars might know what they were talking about. But do you even know what you're allegedly reading about? Sounds like a hopeless bluff to me. Argument just for the sake of argument. No harm, no foul; no point either.

But all of this topic is just fluff to divert a little snippet of time here and there. There never was and never will be a consistent definition of not only "fine art", but even "art" itself.

I've never claimed to be a genius but I have read hundreds of pages on the subject probably written by geniuses, gone to lectures and had long conversations with people who actually know quite a bit about the subject. you are obviously welcome to your opinions, but they might go against people who seem to have written hundreds maybe thousands of pages about this very subject and are actually part of the discourse. ( like sally price )

 

[jnamia]

50 something is too young to be a "creepy old guy."

well he's 2x her age, that's not old (compared to her?). how about "creepy guy" instead

 

[DREW WILEY]

My own aunt had four phD's and taught Art History for a major university for decades. She also has more murals on the Natl Historic Register than any other person in history. She willed me her hand-ground pigments and rare art books, and many of her studies in various media - gosh knows who is going to end up inheriting all that next (I don't even have the space to store it here); but it must imply something. Had many long conversations with her. I wasn't born yesterday.
But no, I haven't actually read hundreds of thousands of pages of "expert opinions". Neither have you. Makes no difference. I wouldn't even bother chiming in on a thread like this one if it weren't conspicuously a "just-for-fun" harmless flypaper sort of topic attracting silly banter.

But in terms of actual photographic applications, just a couple years ago I did return with some rock art shots in remote Nevada I took mainly for sheer personal esthetic reasons. But doing so using the enhancing contrast effect of a deep green filter in relation to etched reddish rock, plus contrast enhancement during printing and toning itself, studying the resultant prints led me to some very interesting conclusions regarding the subject which nobody had noticed before. I realized I was looking at a ritualized map explaining where to set fish traps during seasonal peak runoff periods. But that was only because I had been trying to understand similar patterns in that part of the West long before. The same sort of "chicken-scratches" on rock walls by a whole different culture in another part of the world might mean something else entirely. That's what's so fun about it. Right or wrong, the prints look nice for their own sake.

 

[VinceInMT]

Art is supposed to be inspiring ….

I suppose it depends on how narrowly you want to define “inspiring.” If means “exalting,” “held in high regard,” or uplifting, then I would disagree with that statement.

There is a whole approach to art that is classified as “abject” and I would certainly consider it art. That form is defined by the Tate as “Abject art is used to describe artworks which explore themes that transgress and threaten our sense of cleanliness and propriety particularly referencing the body and bodily functions.” Look up “The Power of Horror” by Julia Kristeva for a detailed look at this.

 

[Sirius Glass]

No - I'm not referring to the Australian Aborigines. Hand outlines in red ochre are almost ubiquitous worldwide where rock shelter and climate conditions allow their preservation. It's maybe one of the most universal human artistic expressions, "I was here". Wouldn't be surprised if that custom has existed over 100,000 yrs. I happen to have a brick-like slab of red ochre which still has the deep dimple impressions of fingerprints on one side, and hardened fiber brush strokes on the opposite side. It was accidentally baked into permanence by cooking fires above its own layer later on. The object is perhaps 15,000 yrs old, but otherwise impossible to precisely date because the soil there were repeatedly disturbed for millennia.

They also made petroglyphs and mega structures.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Has anyone defined what constitutes fine art, yet? I mean, that's fine if no one has, because it's not like anyone's going to get a fine if they don't.

Are you kidding? No, not yet.

 

[Sirius Glass]

50 something is too young to be a "creepy old guy."

Not to a 12 or 13 year old.