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koraks said:
things do gain depth if they're connected to the intent behind a photograph. In the cases when there's such a thing, of course. Let snapshots be their merry selves.
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Snapshots generally have a much clearer and firmer intention than more formal, "artistic" photos.

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"Gotta send it to my landscaper so he knows which one to cut down."

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"Looks cool."

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"I'm making art. There is no "Why"!"
 
chuckroast said:
But isn't that true of all New Yorkers? Asking for a friend.

Bwhahahahaha
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Well, I moved from NYC to New Jersey where everyone tailgates.
 
Don_ih said:
Snapshots generally have a much clearer and firmer intention than more formal, "artistic" photos.

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"Gotta send it to my landscaper so he knows which one to cut down."

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"Looks cool."

"You are taking a photo of that tree. Why?"
"I'm making art. There is no "Why"!"
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I once took a picture of a tree because of its resemblance to another object. I really saw artistic value on it. And the tree does look cool! I hope it’s still there, in the middle of that plantation in Switzerland, unharmed.
 
koraks said:
Places like Paris are simply overrun. It's not about the phones. It's about the hordes of people dominating the place. Same with most European capitals. They've become 'unlivable' cities. And, of course, any of us visiting any of those places for pleasure is part of the problem.

If you stand in the back of the perpetual crowd surrounding Mona Lisa, you're part of that crowd. Is it good? Is it bad? The punters bring in the money that hopefully pays for a some decent security so the next batch of artworks isn't stolen, or that allows other works of art to be preserved in a durable manner. At the same time, the city center of Paris has become a terrible place to spend time at due to the hordes of Chinese, Americans etc.

As to photography - I see it as a way people experience something. At what point do people grab their phones/cameras to photograph something? When they're impressed, moved, amazed. It's an expression of emotion. Same with 'sharing' it on Instagram etc. It's of course meaningless to everyone else - but it's meaningful for the person who snaps the shot and then shares it.

Who am I to judge that?

We have a lot of time and money on our hands. This allows us to travel at a massive scale and flood these places. Again, is it good, is it bad? If you're there to witness it and it bothers you - aren't you just being a part of the problem? Stay away from those places if you think that's the case. Accept the consequence.

L'enfer: c'est les autres.
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We travel off seasons to avoid those crowds. We have been doing that for decades.
 
Sirius Glass said:
We travel off seasons to avoid those crowds. We have been doing that for decades.
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With Italy we tried that in 2024 in late October in Tuscany and two weeks ago at the end of last February in Rome, with a distance to the christmas-holidays as well as easter. The hordes (which we admittedly were part of) were still hardly bearable. We will not be going again, mainland-Italy is from the list. Maybe we give Sicily a chance next year, the children were there and liked it.
 
Sirius Glass said:
We travel off seasons to avoid those crowds. We have been doing that for decades.
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So do we. These places are overrun also in off seasons. Last time we visited Paris was 2 years ago in early February. There were a lot of people like you and us, avoiding the 'season'.

skahde said:
We will not be going again, mainland-Italy is from the list. Maybe we give Sicily a chance next year, the children were there and liked it.
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Off-season, Sicily is great, but so are parts of Southern mainland Italy, like Puglia. Tuscany of course is pretty much hopeless.
 
Tel said:
Yup..Best thing about retirement is that I can travel when I want to. Fares are cheaper, weather is often more pleasant and places are less crowded in off-season.
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We travel when schools are in session to avoid too many kids. We're retired.
 
The better cruise ships are good if you want to avoid too many kids. You tend to get more mature and older couples. Of course, the easier, less athletic, off-ship tours are booked quicker. Book them early before you sail.
 
MartinCrabtree said:
Cruise ships? Yeah, captured on a floating overcrowded pathogen generator. Not for me.
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That's true. But it is fun to cruise if you have never done it before.
 
MartinCrabtree said:
Cruise ships? Yeah, captured on a floating overcrowded pathogen generator. Not for me.
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I grew up working summers doing maintenance on commercial fishing boats. As the youngest of the bunch I got to work from the bowels of these vessels to tiptop of their masts as the Bilge Rat Apprentice designee.

If I never see another boat as long as I live - I don't care how much booze and food they serve - it will be way too soon. The stench of rotting fish and diesel stays with you forever ...
 
koraks said:
Off-season, Sicily is great, but so are parts of Southern mainland Italy, like Puglia. Tuscany of course is pretty much hopeless.
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Thanks for the hint, so we widen the scope to the kingdom of both sicilies. 😁
 
Haha, good catch!
You might/probably have visited Cinque Terre when you were in Tuscany. The villages are gorgeous, of course, but we found that the villages along the south coast of the Gargano (e.g. Vieste) but also along the Puglian coast are at least as pretty, but (especially outside the summer season) far, far quieter and nicer to spend time at. Even a relatively touristy place as Bari is much quieter in the same time of year than the well-known cities & towns in the north.
 
For the past sixty years we have traveled off season here in the US,Canada, New Zealand and Europe and Iceland. Several times to Italy. We flew and then drove. When possible we avoided major highways. Crowds never really bothered us and often presented photo opportunities. Most often I would go out early in the morning before people were out and about.
We have a great place to stay in Tuscany outside a small town but well located. They have apartments in a large villa on 350 acres of vineyards and is family run. They even stayed with us on a trip they made to Florida.
If you want to see the world you have to put up with what is there and go with the flow.
 
snusmumriken said:
Arguably the best time to go anywhere in the world is about 120 years ago.
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After the better part of 1M miles of travel in the pursuit of my profession, I have witnessed the steady decline of the Western world as cities got dirtier, crime increased, education outcomes got worse, and civility declined. This applies equally to Europe and North America, the places where I spent 99% of my time.

This is not some "it used to be better" chant from the elderly. It's an observable thing by anyone who was there. Meanwhile, a good many of the locals pretend everything is fine, again in all locations.
 
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