Warm Tone Paper

[RexWH]

Can anyone please recommend a variable contrast, warm tone, fiber base paper that has a creamy base rather than a yellowish base?

 

[MJLangdon]

I use Ilford multigrade warm tone gloss fibre based paper.
It has a really nice look and quality and tones nicely.

 

[Renato Tonelli]

Adoc MCC110 is very nice but very but perhaps not as 'creamy'as you might require.

 

[pentaxuser]

Can anyone please recommend a variable contrast, warm tone, fiber base paper that has a creamy base rather than a yellowish base?

I think it will help if you told us what you use that has a yellowish base. Otherwise there is a danger that what others regard as a creamy base you see as a yellowish base so you avoid getting recommendations that in fact is part of the problem rather than part of the solution

pentaxuser

 

[winger]

I think it will help if you told us what you use that has a yellowish base. Otherwise there is a danger that what others regard as a creamy base you see as a yellowish base so you avoid getting recommendations that in fact is part of the problem rather than part of the solution

pentaxuser

Adding to this, what developer will you be using? That can make some difference, too. I use Ilford warm tone FB in Ilford multigrade developer and consider it creamy. In other developers it might not be as creamy.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

"Creamy" and yellowish are about the same in my book... Do you want a neutral-white base, a warm-white (i.e., slightly yellower/beige) base, or a very warm/beige base color?

 

[Ian Grant]

The older creamy yellowish paper base was discontinued I didn't like Ilford Warmtone origally as it was on that base. Now current Ilford warmtone is on a white base with optical brighteners, Simon Galley said Harman technical services suggested longer washing would remove the brighteners giving a warmer looking base.

It's possible to stain the base to give the creamy effect, very weak tea for instance has been used by some.

Ian

 

[miha]

Can anyone please recommend a variable contrast, warm tone, fiber base paper that has a creamy base rather than a yellowish base?

Fomatone 131 or 132.

 

[tedr1]

Try some Ilford Multigrade Fiber base Warmtone paper, the image color is an attractive warm black and the paper base is ivory, and it is readily available in most sizes. The "glossy" finish air-dries to a semi-gloss surface with good deep blacks. I use it with (always fresh) Ilford MG developer.

 

[Ian Grant]

Try some Ilford Multigrade Fiber base Warmtone paper, the image color is an attractive warm black and the paper base is ivory, and it is readily available in most sizes. The "glossy" finish air-dries to a semi-gloss surface with good deep blacks. I use it with (always fresh) Ilford MG developer.

The paper base is now white and has been for a few years.

Ian

 

[tedr1]

It seems our definitions of white are different, we have had this conversation before. I am referring to the paper supplied in the USA by a large retailer in the past six months which is ivory not white. This is confirmed by the Ilford paper sample swatch book in which there are white base papers (for example the RC MG papers) and the Warmtone paper bound together for side by side comparison. The warmtone paper is different from the white base papers.

 

[dpurdy]

Creamy vs Yellowish is definitely hard to know what OP means. However there is a little trick you can do to warm or change the color of the base. I have done it quite a bit with different papers, including even platinum prints. You can make even a neutral toned Ilford paper look like a warm tone by dying the paper in very dilute dye. You can buy some procion dye from an art store and mix up a very dilute batch and very slightly dye the paper. In my experience the paper takes the dye very evenly. There are lots of colors to choose from to make what seems creamy to you. Another thing that is very easy to do and again something I have done quite a lot is to slightly stain a print with black tea. I did it by putting a pot of tea in my stop bath and then the longer I left a print in there the more stained it becomes.
Another thing you might try is Oriental WTFB paper. Last time I bought it the base was much warmer than Ilford.
Dennis

 

[Ian Grant]

It seems our definitions of white are different, we have had this conversation before. I am referring to the paper supplied in the USA by a large retailer in the past six months which is ivory not white. This is confirmed by the Ilford paper sample swatch book in which there are white base papers (for example the RC MG papers) and the Warmtone paper bound together for side by side comparison. The warmtone paper is different from the white base papers.

I'm referring to the current Ilford Multigrade Warmtone paper and comparisons to other warm tone papers, it's very significantly different now to when it was first introduced. When Agfa puled out of the market I needed a replacement for their Classic warm tone paper (MCC) and the only alternative with a similar base colour at that point was Forte Polywarmtone. I'd gone through this many years before when selecting a paper at that time Ilford didn't make a warm tone paper, But in the meantime Ilford had re-entered the warm tone market and so looked at the Ilford Warmtone FB and talked to Ilford staff about it, but I really disliked the base colour at that point.

After comments about the change in paper base on this Forum I tried the Ilford Warmtone paper with the new base and with Polywarmtone gone (although I still have quite a bit) I switched. Like Ilford I'd call it a warm white base but it's not remotely like the original Ilford Warmtone FB or the creamy/ivory bases of older papers.

The warmest base I've seen recently was Fomabrom Variant 111, I really like the paper but won't use it in my exhibition sets.

Ian

 

[miha]

The warmest base I've seen recently was Fomabrom Variant 111, I really like the paper but won't use it in my exhibition sets.

Ian

I find this strange. Fomabrom Variant 111 should be white, Ilford Warmtone warm white (and distictively so), and Fomatone creamy.

 

[Ian Grant]

I find this strange. Fomabrom Variant 111 should be white, Ilford Warmtone warm white (and distictively so), and Fomatone creamy.

You're right, I meant Fomatone 131, MG Classic.

Ian

 

[paul ron]

oh yeah like the old agfa record rapid paper.... those days are gone.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Some papers were coated on cream-colored, marginally tan, or off-white paper paper itself (like Agfa Record). This was different from papers which had a relatively yellowish version of gelatin overcoat, like the late EMaks. Or you could hypothetically have had instances of both on the same paper. There were also bright white papers coated with yellowish gelatin, typically EU. And all of this is different from warm versus cold emulsions, or the warm vs cold or neutral developers. Lots of fun stuff. Ilford MGWT is a warm emulsion on bright white paper, with rather clear gelatin. But the overall
surface can be tinted in various ways, including glycin developers.

 

[mshchem]

I'm looking at some of my old Kodak books . Kodak offered three standard stocks , White , Cream White , and Old Ivory . I'm no expert . Is the stock tint from the Bayarta coating? I remember how much I loved Ektalure G cream base. I remember fooling around with glycin as Drew mentioned . I did some work with Edwal 106 . Seems like a dye tint would be do able . I like the Ilford Art paper a little to much "sparkle" but it's nice . I'm going to order some Foma .
I would almost give up VC papers if I could just get Medalist and Ektalure.
Best Mike

 

[faberryman]

I don't know about Agfa Record, but I am looking at some of my 40+ year old prints on Agfa Portriga Rapid and while the image is dark chocolate brown, the paper is as white as snow.

 

[nworth]

I don't know of any with a cream white base in the sense of the old Kodak G surface, and a quick look through the Freestyle offerings wasn't encouraging. The last batch of Ilford Warmtone I used had the usual bright white base, although the image was somewhat warmer than usual. The same goes for Foma warmtone paper.

 

[miha]

A quick snap of some of the papers in question:

 

[tedr1]

I'm referring to the current Ilford Multigrade Warmtone paper and comparisons to other warm tone papers, it's very significantly different now to when it was first introduced. When Agfa puled out of the market I needed a replacement for their Classic warm tone paper (MCC) and the only alternative with a similar base colour at that point was Forte Polywarmtone. I'd gone through this many years before when selecting a paper at that time Ilford didn't make a warm tone paper, But in the meantime Ilford had re-entered the warm tone market and so looked at the Ilford Warmtone FB and talked to Ilford staff about it, but I really disliked the base colour at that point.

After comments about the change in paper base on this Forum I tried the Ilford Warmtone paper with the new base and with Polywarmtone gone (although I still have quite a bit) I switched. Like Ilford I'd call it a warm white base but it's not remotely like the original Ilford Warmtone FB or the creamy/ivory bases of older papers.

The warmest base I've seen recently was Fomabrom Variant 111, I really like the paper but won't use it in my exhibition sets.

Ian

I take that as agreement that Ilford FB Warmtone has a warm white base.

 

[Ian Grant]

I take that as agreement that Ilford FB Warmtone has a warm white base.

I've always said it has a warm "white" base and that's quite different to the original base which was very significantly warmer, more ivory.

Ian

 

[RexWH]

I am the OP. I should have realized I was not asking a simple question. Perhaps I should say that I am looking for a warm tone paper that has whites with a different tint than Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone.

The only warm tone paper I have used is Ilford Multigrade FB Warm Tone. I have developed it in Dektol, TD-32 (Selectol), and Ansco 130 (contains glycin). All were diluted 1:2. I have not tried different dilutions. Although the different developers produce noticeably different images with this paper, I perceive the same yellowish tint to the base for all three. I like this paper fine for some of my photographs, but for some I think I will prefer a warm tone but with creamy whites rather than yellowish withies.

I am not sure how to explain what I think is the difference between "creamy" and "yellowish". I might say "ivory" or "ecru" instead of "creamy", but I doubt that clarifies much. Referring to the picture posted by miha, on my monitor and to my eye: the Fomatone 542 II looks very yellow; the Fomatone 131 looks much less yellow; the Ilford MG Warmtone 1K looks white; and the Fomabrom Variant 111 looks white but less bright than the Ilford. Nevertheless, the base of Ilford Warmtone does not look white to me in person, especially compared to Ilford Classic. This difference is most noticeable in sunlight, less so in the florescent lights in my house, and less still in tungsten (unknown color temperature). But I still see a definite difference in tungsten.

For what it's worth, the Ilford website describes Ilford Multigrade FB Classic a having "a white base tint" and Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone as having "a warm white base tint".

Although I am using the word "base" in my descriptions, I do not think the tint is due to the paper base. Ilford Classic and Warmtone look the same to me from the back. I do not know whether the difference in "base tint", as I call it, is due to the emulsion or to the baryta layer. I am not sure it matters.

Interestingly, and probably irrelevantly, when exposed to sunlight, Ilford Warmtone prints our cool gray and Ilford Classis prints out pinkish (to my eye).

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.

Rex Holsapple

 

[gracjan]

Fomabrom papers developed in Fomatol W-14 give a slightly creamy tone, however I wouln't dare to say that's "warmtone". You may want to try it, that's cheap.