Because statisticians have a different saying, and it end with "... And liars can lie with numbers".
That too!"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." Quote attributed to Benjamin Disraeli.
Brian, Kodak is aware of the problem and they are working on it with the data they can gather. We know that.
Ah, yes... I thought we were on the same page and now certain!Brian, I just now saw your edit. Sorry, I wasn't implying anything about engineers, they just happened to be the folks I was working with rather than statisticians. I think "Liars can lie with numbers" is the same as "Liars can figure."
We also know that they HAVE already taken action by changing the paper and ink
To my understanding the only information we got about this is a member quoting from a private message he got from Kodak Alaris (post #195).
They did not even hint at the problem as such in public.
Or did I miss something?
Is Fujifilm a hostage too? I have never seen defective paper from them.Kodak and Ilford are indeed hostage to the companies that make the backing paper and ink. They both run a standard battery of tests but these may not detect a minor change in formulation of the paper or ink. In fact, a slight change that passed the tests might show up in extreme keeping conditions. So, there may be 2 things or more going on.
I'm not excusing anyone, as there is a problem and it should have been found. In addition, all of that bad film should be recalled.
PE
In addition, all of that bad film should be recalled.
PE
Yes, you missed several 'somethings'. That's the problem with several threads covering the same issue. Kodak has shared batch numbers to watch out for and they have changed the paper and ink. See also John Sexton's comments quoted in (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
You and I both know that the 'old' Kodak had a very large group of people dedicated to investigating and resolving customer issues (like this). I did work for them many times. I suspect the 'new' organization(s) probably only has a couple of people trying to do this.Brian, I agree with you and have stated that several times, but I suspect that Kodak and Alaris are running around gobbling like headless chickens trying to decide what to do about this PR disaster!
But no information from directly Kodak saying something like "we see signs of a potential problem so we've informed all of our vendors and retailers to return their film within the affected batch numbers for exchange with our new and improved film" or on their web site like "here are the affected lot numbers for any of our customers who are storing film for future use; if you have any return it immediately for exchange."
I think this is in alignment with what AgX was thinking too.
Exaktly. There is no hint at their website.
A quoted listing and a comment buried at Apug, that I even missed after a few days off Apug, is not what I expect from a manufacturer of the importance as Kodak Alaris.
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