The Massive Development Chart is an unreliable resource.
How do your development times compare to the manufacturer's recommendations?
Is there any chance you have some of the old, European market only HC-110 that was of a different concentration than the current stuff or the old North America stuff?
See page 3 of Kodak's developing instructions here for agitation techniques: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf
I'm surprised no one has offered the most logical solution. In Kodak's words, "If your negatives are consistently to flat, increase development time."
Do check your chemistry, etc, but if all is in order, then you simply need to develop more. Try 15% more as a starting point.
Best,
Doremus
please explain how you are doing your light metering. i.e. which light meter and its type, in camera or hand held and your technique for taking a light reading. How old is the meter/camera and what model is it. Is it a digital device or analogue with a needle.
Manufacturers change film formulations, developer formulations, your water changes, whatever. Any of these can require longer developing times for one reason or the other. Every time I mix up a new batch of PMK (even though I I'm using the Photographer's Formulary powder kit that should be consistent) I check development times and tweak if needed. I often have to.
"Recommended times" are just that: recommendations for starting points. If you agitate exactly as the Kodak lab techs do, your thermometers match theirs exactly, your water quality is exactly the same, and you expose exactly as they do for their tests, etc., then the recommended time will likely work for you. If not, well, you're on your own. Things like the Massive Development Chart are "wiki-like" in that they are compilations of user contributions. Reliability and applicability are often a matter of luck. Find what works for you and take the recommendations with a grain of salt.
I assume you can recognize the difference between underexposed and underdeveloped. If you're not sure here, check the meter(s) too.
Best,
Doremus
+1
but I suspect something else is going on since he's been doing it OK for some time and its suddenly going wrong. It could be dev, it could be faulty meter, it could be sticky shutter etc. He just needs to narrow down the casue via practical tests. He seems to have checked his devloper is OK and its new so start looking elsewhere.
I suspect it may be his metering technique since he's getting variable results, sometimes its OK and others it isn't. we're just coming out of winter which often has much lower contrast lighting levels so it could be that combined with poor metering and exposure placement. will we ever know...
Thanks! Will read this!
To all, many thanks for the comments. I have been metering and checking negatives with a densitometer and it seems like it's just the "light", as I have some well exposed negatives with plenty of contrast on the same roll as very dull negatives. Any tips for developing 135/120 when it's a duller day or should I change exposure? Too bad you can't expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights on rollfilm...
I've been thinking about it, but then I ask myself, why do I have to change my development from the recommended times?
I'll shoot some new rolls and check with the spotmeter for the zone system, see if there is plenty of tonal contrast and print those negs. If it's still flat, then it's probably my development
...
I assume you did not click and read the link i posted?
To get more contrast, develop longer or agitate more, or both. If something changed it's probably worthwhile to try and identify that change.
Municipal water sources can change, the recent experience in Michigan is an extreme example, but one town near here changes their water source seasonally from wells to reservoirs and the wells have a higher iron content which impacts the developer and compensation is needed.
Our water softener broke... so we got hard water now.. Will be replaced soon though, but it's like that for a few months now. Could that be the problem?
For B&W negative film users only.
Right I think this is what you need to understand. The numbers I'm going to give you are ball park numbers just to make it easy for you to understand. You will likely need to refine them with experience.
Firstly you need to know that manufacturers ISO speed and recommended dev is designed to capture 7 stops of subject range onto film which will print exactly to a Grade 2 paper.
straight away this means yo need to be aware of how many stops of subject brighness range there are in your composition. If you don't know that then you have no idea how to set camera exposure. If you are using in camera meter it will usually just average the scene which if the scene has too much light sky in it will result in your neg being underexposed for the shadows. The highlights would be fine.
So question is, what is your subject brightness range? We'll refer to that as SBR from now on. I'll also introduce the terms "Closed Subject" and "Open Subject".
A closed subject is one which which doesn't have any brighter sections behind or in front of the main subject so would be something like a portrait where the background was a high hedge so there was no sky in the frame.
An open subject is one where there is some background lighting brighter than main subject so typically a landscape with sky, especially when there are a lot of bright white clouds.
A closed subject is highly unlikely to have a SBR of as much as 7 stops. It may only be 5 stops so if you have metered it reasonably well you will get it all on film without the shadows being too thin(blocked out).
An open subject can be as high as 12 stops SBR or even more in extreme cases but is often between 7 and 10 stops depending on brightness of sky and clouds or background.
So what is going on with your metering and exposure placement?
My bet is that when you get what you call a flat negative is actaully your averaging meter underexposing the shadows because it is being overly influenced by the highlight values in the subject. So you get mid tones and highlights which print fine but shadows go completely black which is what you are describing.
So how do you deal with that? Well the standard advice is expose for shadows and develop for the highlights.
With roll film this its not so easily doable because you can't develop each frame individually but you can always expose for the shadows which ensures you don't get blocked shadows.
However if your SBR is say 9 stops then its going to be tricky to print becasue 9 stops doesn't fit on G2 paper so you end up having to print shadows and midtones with G2 and then burn in highlights.
There is a better way which follows:
Adjust your film speed to half the ISO box speed which loses you a stop of speed but gains you better shadow details. It does however push the neg highlight densities up too. So what you do is reduce your development by 30% (to 70%) of the manufacturers recommended development time when using ISO box speed. This will bring the neg highlight densities down to much more easily printable values.
The result of doing this is your subject neg densities will have lower contrast than they did before BUT will have some shadow details them and it will print far more easily than it would have if you had not reduced film speed and development.
So the price of doing this is that you lose 1 stop of speed but the benefits outweigh that.
Now just to complicate it a little further, you must get your exposure correct. You have three choices, you either expose for the shadows or you expose for the highlights or you expose for the mid tones. Most expose for the shadows to make sure everything is captured on film from deepest shadows and up. Seems like good idea BUT if your SBR is only 7 stops then highlights on neg won't be as dense as they should ideally be and you need to increase printing time and contrast. Unfortuantely that will very likely mean you need to sacriice some of that hard won shadow detail on the neg. So what I do is expose for for the highlights in the knowledge that providing my SBR is 10 stops or less I won't lose any shadow detail on the neg. Only if the SBR is greater than 10 stops do I expose for the shadows to be sure I get them on film and deal with excessive highlight densitty that casues when printing.
The big advantage of exposing for the highlights is that you get consistent highlight negative densities. The normal method of printing is to work out a print time for highlights and then adjust contrast for the shadows. This is becasue some (not all) VC printing filters are speed matched on a highlight print density. Ilford filters definitely are. Your enlarger Y+M filters could be anywhere depending on your enlarger.
Now how to take a meter reading? Well for your landscape images I would always use a spot meter (which I believe you have). What you do is to look at the subject and spot meter tha darkest significant (not tiny black bits) and lightest part (e.g. brightest part of white cloud ) of your subject and the difference between them in stops is your SBR. If the SBR is 10 stops or less then you need to meter a highlight. The highlight to meter is one that you want to retain full textural detail in just before its going to lose detail due to its brightness. So this may be a bright part of a cloud in which you want to be able to see the texture in the cloud or a brides white gown which youw ant retain texture of the cloth. You then take that reading and Open up TWO Stops from that reading and that is the exposure setting you use (or its equivalent value).
If on the other hand your SBR was more than 10 stops, then you spot meter a shadow area that you want to retain full full shadow detail in (just before it starts to become blocked up) and you Close Down 2 Stops from the meter reading and use that as your exposure setting (or its equivalent value).
Thats all there is to it. You may need to adjust your film speed up or down a 1/3 of a stop to refine it once you have tried a few rolls of film and you may need to adjust dev time down by upto another 20% to refine it but use the values I gave you above for starters.
Thats' all there is to it. A spot meter is your friend becasue it allows you to place exposure with a good deal of precision. And most of your subjects will be less than 10 stops SBR so most of your negs will be really easy to print. I expect most to require G3 to print and some more than G3 but none of them should lose shadow detail unless you increase print contrast too much.
And what about those closed subjects which have lower contrast to start with? Well above will work for them too but may require printing at G4 or occasionally G5 if subject is really low contrast.
However, if you are in the studio or you know all the images on a single roll of film will be of closed subjects then I would revert to using ISO box speed and manufacturers recommended development. But in this case I would meter a highlight in which you want full textural detail and open up 1 1/2 stops (not 2) and expose using that. Again you will get consistent neg highlight densities which is desireable and makes printing easier.
Is there any way, to compensate for flat light outside? Maybe even a faster exposure, so I get more shadows and compensate for the highlights in print exposure?
...
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?