Using an external meter by choice

[Craig]

That’s right. You take that camera to subject position .

If that's possible. I mainly shoot landscapes in the mountains, and I have never used incident metering. The light on the mountain across the valley is almost certainly different than the light where I am.

 

[BrianShaw]

If that's possible. I mainly shoot landscapes in the mountains, and I have never used incident metering. The light on the mountain across the valley is almost certainly different than the light where I am.

Than incident metering isn’t the best method in that situation.

 

[BMbikerider]

Of course if all else fails hold the meter in one hand and take a reading of a 18% grey card. Hold it up looking whilst looking at what you want to take a picture of, and take a reflected light reading. That has never failed for me.

If you don;t own a grey card,cut the back off a breakfast serial packet and meter off what was the inside surface That is generally close enough. Engineer precision is only very rarely needed with meter readings, even with side film. If it was we would all be speaking to the men in white coats and babbling rubbish.

 

[AgX]

[Profisix] The distance between markings on the scale is literally the size of the pointer that you allign the scale width. Easy to get 1/3 stop out or more if not careful. Otherwise its a very sensitive and responsive meter and the null metering technique of centering the needle is quick and easy in practice. I'll probably keep it until one of us dies.

I aggree. But one typically does not need the ASA scale that often, due to the ability to "place" luminances on the nulling scale and due to the existence of a correction scale.

 

[film_man]

I have use many different cameras with built-in meters, eg lots of Canon EOS camera, Nikon F3/F5/F100/FM2n, OM1, Rollei 6000 series and the 2.8FX, etc etc. I also own a Sekonic 358 and owned a 308 and a 558.

Now...as much as I trust the Sekonics...I have never ever had a problem with built-in meters. All you do is you shoot a roll or two and you learn what the meter does. In fact, all I ever needed to do is have a think if the sun or some bright light is in the background. If there is, I recompose and meter without that bright source in the frame, exposure hold, recompose and shoot. Done. Then again, I don't find it that much of a hassle using the Sekonic if I have to, the light does not actually change that much and if shooting C41 who cares a stop either way. Lately I just use an app on my phone, it works for anything from daylight to reasonable indoor light levels.

 

[tokam]

Reply to Agx

Oops am I missing something here. The ASA / ISO / Film speed scale sets the basic reference point for the meter. I could set the meter to ISO 400 and if I change films to ISO 100 I could dial in -2 stops compensation. For the same lighting conditions the null point for the needle would be the same but the numbers in the LW / EV window would change by a value of 2 stops.

What you appear to be suggesting appears to be the equivalent, for example, of setting a camera meter to ISO 400 for TMax 400 and leaving this unchanged when loading with TMax 100 but dialling in + 2 stops of exposure compensation. This fine if you remember what you are doing. Or have I misinterpreted what you said? From all of my experience metres need the film speed to be input so that they can generate correct combinations of aperture and shutter speed. If the ISO value is awkward to set precisely on a meter, the output values from taking a meter reading will not be optimum.

 

[AgX]

My point was that at many cameras (e.g. AE-1) amd many handheld meters one needs to reset the ASA setting to compensate for certain lighting effects or filters.
Better designed cameras and meters have an override setting at the ASA scale or elswhere to do so.
At these one only needs to reset the ASA scale when changing between films of different sensitivity.

 

[Paul Howell]

Unless you are shooting Beyond the Zone System, in which case you would use an incident meter to determine the scene brightness range. ISO or meter reading in terms of aperture or shutter speed is irrelevant, on the number of stops between desired shadow and highlights.

 

[faberryman]

Is there any middle ground between Sunny 16 and Einstein's Theory of Exposure? Asking for a friend.

 

[markjwyatt]

...
If you don;t own a grey card,cut the back off a breakfast serial packet and meter off what was the inside surface That is generally close enough. E...

Another rule of thumb is to use palm of your hand (ZVI), then close down a stop. If skin your is very dark, then maybe treat as ZV, but for most people the palm is still close to Z6.

 

[Paul Howell]

Is there any middle ground between Sunny 16 and Einstein's Theory of Exposure? Asking for a friend.

Matrix metering

 

[Bill Burk]

Stephen Stills offers the best metering suggestion.

Well there’s a rose in a fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove.

And if you can’t meter from the light they’re in, use the light you’re with.

 

[wiltw]

Unless you are shooting Beyond the Zone System, in which case you would use an incident meter to determine the scene brightness range. ISO or meter reading in terms of aperture or shutter speed is irrelevant, on the number of stops between desired shadow and highlights.

You do not 'need to use incident' meter to read shadows and highlights for Zone System, the methodology is appropriate to reflected light readings...for example, a black tuxedo read as Zone II and exposed accordingly should result in black tux with crease/wrinkles visible (if present)...'shadow with detail'

 

[Sirius Glass]

If that's possible. I mainly shoot landscapes in the mountains, and I have never used incident metering. The light on the mountain across the valley is almost certainly different than the light where I am.

An incident meter would be perfect for you on a snowy day or when most of the scene is snow covered.

 

[Paul Howell]

You do not 'need to use incident' meter to read shadows and highlights for Zone System, the methodology is appropriate to reflected light readings...for example, a black tuxedo read as Zone II and exposed accordingly should result in black tux with crease/wrinkles visible (if present)...'shadow with detail'

In zone you use a reflective, spotmeter is preferred, in Beyond the Zone System that Phil Davis used an indecent meter. His system does read a zone, he reads the scene brightness range (SBR) which is input to a majic wheel calculator or a program on a smart phone which has been loaded with your chosen film's characteristic curve, along with other date to provide the shutter speed and aperture along with the recommended development time. I have only read Davis's first edition book and have bothered to do all the tested needed to code the program, I use the Zone, attended a Minor White class in the 60s.

 

[moggi1964]

Stephen Stills offers the best metering suggestion.

Well there’s a rose in a fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove.

And if you can’t meter from the light they’re in, use the light you’re with.

Or bracket as Graham Nash famously said.

 

[drmoss_ca]

In zone you use a reflective, spotmeter is preferred, in Beyond the Zone System that Phil Davis used an indecent meter...

I need one of those!

 

[Paul Howell]

You need the system not just the meter. Fair warning, Phil Davis's system was designed for sheet film, he stated that BTZS has little advantage for roll film. My thinking is that within the limitations of fixed development times for all exposures on a single roll of film, like the zone system will provide a printable negative.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You need the system not just the meter. Fair warning, Phil Davis's system was designed for sheet film, he stated that BTZS has little advantage for roll film. My thinking is that within the limitations of fixed development times for all exposures on a single roll of film, like the zone system will provide a printable negative.

And that is why I passed up an opportunity to go with my coworkers for a class in Yosemite taught by Ansel Adams in the early 1970's.

 

[wiltw]

And that is why I passed up an opportunity to go with my coworkers for a class in Yosemite taught by Ansel Adams in the early 1970's.

I have never adopted the Zone System, inclusive of altered developing methodology. The value for anyone, even a color shooter, is Zone System of Exposure determination, even without the film development alteration.
I once took a workshop with Marion Patterson, a contemporary and personal friend of Ansel and his wife, and she complemented my exposure of shots, which did not simply take an incident reading and use it as metered, but which captured shadow detail which would not have been preserved in a shot made with a standard incident reading.

 

[Bill Burk]

Or bracket as Graham Nash famously said.

And he knows photography. And printing.

I once had an Iris printer. Don’t remember why it didn’t work for me but I had to toss it.

 

[tokam]

My point was that at many cameras (e.g. AE-1) amd many handheld meters one needs to reset the ASA setting to compensate for certain lighting effects or filters.
Better designed cameras and meters have an override setting at the ASA scale or elswhere to do so.
At these one only needs to reset the ASA scale when changing between films of different sensitivity.

Apologies. I understand what you mean now. I generally only use the outer compensation wheel when I am using the Tele metering adapter which which requires different exposure offsets depending on whether you meter at 7.5 or 15 degrees. The Profispot, of course doesn't require any compensation to be set on the meter.

In general, I take a base reflected reading and null the needle to 0. I then may take additional readings and note the needle deflection between 3 stops plus or minus. I then do any exposure adjustments in my head.

The Profisix is a very flexible and competent instrument. I will miss it when it dies.
P.S. Shhh! Don't tell anyone that I also have a Lunasix F as a backup meter.

 

[AgX]

I generally only use the outer compensation wheel when I am using the Tele metering adapter which which requires different exposure offsets depending on whether you meter at 7.5 or 15 degrees. The Profispot, of course doesn't require any compensation to be set on the meter.

The Profisix does not need any compensation setting for its accessories as long as these got those electrical contacts. But it also takes those accessories purely mechanical attached.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Is there any point to the zone system if you print from the digital scan. For BW? For color?

 

[drmoss_ca]

An excellent example of how the brain makes assumptions about what the eye sees - serious replies about a comment on an INDECENT meter.