American cheese was formulated simply to melt well over a hamburger patty...the pre-formed version of cheese spread in a tube. American cheese is a product made by blending real cheese with texture- and flavor-altering ingredients, using a process actually invented in Switzerland, and perfected by Kraft.Well, I moved up to American cheese, However, I understand that foreigners don't even consider that real cheese either.
I expect that a large number of non-foreigners don't either.Well, I moved up to American cheese, However, I understand that foreigners don't even consider that real cheese either.
I expect that a large number of non-foreigners don't either.
Somehow Alan, I don't think you are the target market for one of my favourite local stores, Les Amis du Fromage:
https://www.buycheese.com/collections/individual-cheeses
The only thing worse than putting yellow mustard on a frank, is putting ketchup on it.I once warned a German colleague about American yellow mustard. He foolishly decided to try a bit, and immediately made a pained look on his face, before grabbing the brown mustard.
American cheese was formulated simply to melt well over a hamburger patty...the pre-formed version of cheese spread in a tube. American cheese is a product made by blending real cheese with texture- and flavor-altering ingredients, using a process actually invented in Switzerland, and perfected by Kraft.
I expect that a large number of non-foreigners don't either.
Somehow Alan, I don't think you are the target market for one of my favourite local stores, Les Amis du Fromage:
https://www.buycheese.com/collections/individual-cheeses
Comparing multiple meters is very different than doing comprehensive ZS testing. I am not a masochist.
Traditional Zone System tests can take a lot of film and could/should be done at least once for the experience. Afterwards if one finds it enjoyable all the more power to them.
But it only takes 5 sheets for a full family of curves and an occasional control sheet now and then to keep in touch with your process consistency.
5 sheets is a whole lot less masochistic than 105 sheets, which the other poster did in order to understand different developers. OTOH it is presumptuous, IMHO, to think the one developer you chose is 'the best' for ZS results, isn't it?!
5 sheets is a whole lot less masochistic than 105 sheets, which the other poster did in order to understand different developers. OTOH it is presumptuous, IMHO, to think the one developer you chose is 'the best' for ZS results, isn't it?!
Thanks for clarifying what you did...the idea of 105 sheets of film was too painful!You misunderstood. I did 105 exposures, 21 per sheet (i.e. contact printing a step wedge that had 21 panels), for a total of 5 sheets of 4x5 film. There are 105 density measurements per film/developer combo that need to be made. You need that per film and developer combo you wish to test.
So for example if you wished to test HP5 with Xtol and ID-11 you would need to run 5 sheets of HP5/Xtol and another 5 sheets of HP5/ID-11. That would be 105+105 density measurements, for a total of 210 density measurements spread over 10 sheets of film.
It isn't about determining what is "best", it's about understanding how a chosen film/developer combo behaves and how to obtain predictable results. The whole goal is to be able to capture the desired range of shadow and highlights to obtain a printable negative, and be able to expose and develop accordingly. The starting point developing recommendations on the film box may not yield the results you want, or you might want to use a developer not on the data sheet. By doing this testing you can find the optimum ISO and developing time.
Well, I honesty miss the former trio of Astia / Provia / Velvia, which covered a better span of potential chrome contrast issues than any single product can. But what I don't miss is that miserable decade when nearly all chrome sheet films from both Fuji and Kodak were on miserable floppy, dimensionally-unstable triacetate base instead of superior polyester stock. That is still the case with Provia.
So yeah, maybe Velveeta, the floppy cheese substitute, was named after the floppy version of Velvia, instead of the other way around.
Paul, I'm impressed you met with these people and took a course with them. The way you describe (pre)-visualization, is that it has to do with tones, highlights and shadows in getting a nice print. What about composition and content. How did your teachers address (pre)visualizing these things which to me seem of first priority?It isn't about determining what is "best", it's about understanding how a chosen film/developer combo behaves and how to obtain predictable results. The whole goal is to be able to capture the desired range of shadow and highlights to obtain a printable negative, and be able to expose and develop accordingly.
No, I respectfully disagree, its about learning to see, Adams called it visualization, what White called previsualization, when I attended Minor White seminar we spent 2 full days learning to see or previsualize a scene before we tested film. The goal is to capture the visualized shadow by exposing for the visualized shadows and developing to obtain the visualized highlight and anticipating how a visualized highlight will affect all the tones of the print. I don't believe that the zone system or beyond the zone systems are necessary to obtain a printable negative.
Paul, I'm impressed you met with these people and took a course with them. The way you describe (pre)-visualization, is that it has to do with tones, highlights and shadows in getting a nice print. What about composition and content. How did your teachers address (pre)visualizing these things which to me seem of first priority?
Thanks for that. I'm using my digital camera to scope out the shot and composition first also using it's zoom to determine the lens. I switch it to display BW. I have one of those f/64 viewers with the dark filter. But the digital camera is better. I'm not sure if that could be considered visualization. But it's very helpful getting the shot set up.Although I did not the AA's seminar, as I understand it, both he and Minor White used black card cut outs periportal to 4X5 to learn to see and compose our visualization before we pulled out our cameras. AA also used very dark filters that when used very briefly provided sense of how the scene will look in black and white. The only reason I was able to attend was that my college had a grant. At the time LaVern College had a minor in photojournalism, but not offer a degree in photography, the minor was a companion to a degree in journalism. I was an antro major. I was picked because I was the only student with a 4X5, a Speedgraphic, needless to say Minor White was not impressed.
I The goal is to capture the visualized shadow by exposing for the visualized shadows and developing to obtain the visualized highlight
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