I've heard both sides of this and was wondering what people thought here. Is there a good reason to pre-wash film?
To pre-wash or not to pre-wash?
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I think there are many MANY pages of discussion of this issue on this site. There seems to be no definitive answer. Do whatever feels right to you!
I agree with the above -- peruse the prior discussions if you wish, there are several hours of reading if you need some!
The most practical use of a pre-rinse seems to be for temperature control. Some of us (well, mostly me) like seeing the different colors of the anti-halation layers of the various film types/makes...especially mixing different films together. If you think that is a bit silly, then you might be greatly entertained by the discussions!
The only warning I can think of is too little pre-rinse is worse than none at all. So far I have seen no problems with a much longer pre-rinse.
The most practical use of a pre-rinse seems to be for temperature control. Some of us (well, mostly me) like seeing the different colors of the anti-halation layers of the various film types/makes...especially mixing different films together. If you think that is a bit silly, then you might be greatly entertained by the discussions!
The only warning I can think of is too little pre-rinse is worse than none at all. So far I have seen no problems with a much longer pre-rinse.
No, I usually just throw it all in the washing machine and add detergent.
I have prerinced in the past as I thought it was important, now I know its not I don't bother, far more important things to worry about when developing film like is there enough beer in the fridge, have my favourite hits from the eighties been cued up on the hifi, also I guess its important that the chemistry is in the right order and the darkroom door is fully closed when doing tray developing.
Find developing film really boring, wish I could be as easily excited about developing as Vaughan is.
I have prerinced in the past as I thought it was important, now I know its not I don't bother, far more important things to worry about when developing film like is there enough beer in the fridge, have my favourite hits from the eighties been cued up on the hifi, also I guess its important that the chemistry is in the right order and the darkroom door is fully closed when doing tray developing.
Find developing film really boring, wish I could be as easily excited about developing as Vaughan is.
According to a documentation from JOBO, you can either do a five minuts pre-rinse or not do it at all, as pre-rinse less than five minutes MAY cause uneven development. You can find the links to the document below.
I agree with above that this is not definite. Any suggesting you find may serve only as a starting point for your own trial. But in my experience, if you are satisfied with unpre-rinsed film, there are little good reasons for you to start.
Links: http://www.jobo-usa.com/images/manuals/introduction_to_processing.pdf. Relevent information can be found under Black and White Photo Processing in Depth.
I agree with above that this is not definite. Any suggesting you find may serve only as a starting point for your own trial. But in my experience, if you are satisfied with unpre-rinsed film, there are little good reasons for you to start.
Links: http://www.jobo-usa.com/images/manuals/introduction_to_processing.pdf. Relevent information can be found under Black and White Photo Processing in Depth.
I prewash sheet film where I need a place to store the loaded holders until I’m ready to put them all in the developer. If I’m doing one or two rolls, I don’t. I don’t think it matters much so long as you’re consistent.
then, I’m a guy who also likes looking at the colors. And uses a Compound shutter where only 1/25 is anywhere near consistent.
then, I’m a guy who also likes looking at the colors. And uses a Compound shutter where only 1/25 is anywhere near consistent.
PE said he always pre-washed. Color and B&W.
Good enough for me.
Good enough for me.
none other than getting everything p to the same temperature.
Nicholas Lindan
Advertiser
Well, it depends on several factors:
- Are you using stand development?
- Rodinal?
- Do you use acid stop bath or water?
- Is there paper under your grain magnifier?
- What enlarging lens aperture are you going to use?
Well said 
Hear hear.You missed film speed ambient temperature.
Hear hear.You missed film speed ambient temperature.
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There is a good reason if some element of your workflow requires or recommends it. As with the examples stated, tray processing sheet film, and working with Jobo's.
Whatever makes you happy is a good reason too. I've pre-washed, and not pre-washed, but mostly I don't. I've not identified any difference in results.
There are 5906 users online at the moment, according to the banner. That should be good for at least 15000 opinions on the topic. It will be a good break from the "should i use paper under my grain focuser" thread.
Whatever makes you happy is a good reason too. I've pre-washed, and not pre-washed, but mostly I don't. I've not identified any difference in results.
There are 5906 users online at the moment, according to the banner. That should be good for at least 15000 opinions on the topic. It will be a good break from the "should i use paper under my grain focuser" thread.
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And what is amazing is that participation (reading and posting) in threads like this is purely optional, yet people feel the need to complain, marvel, hate, and so forth, about their existence.
Like a bunch of old farts complaining that kids don't know how to have fun anymore...
Nicholas Lindan
Advertiser
Well they don't!
This thread could be merged w/ the "paper (or not) in the enlarger easel", along w/ the "best folder recommendation" for a big Mega-Thread. I'd also like to see a sticky on "Fixer as a Developer: yes, or no?", as I have some experience in that area.
The only reason I can fathom, is where you have a rather short development time, say less than 4-5 minutes. In that case, the prewash will saturate the gelatin prior to development, so that the developer flows into the gelatin more uniformly.
for me pre-rinse doesn't take any time at all. I fill the dev tank with water, then rather than sitting there counting my fingers, I spend the next 5 minutes mixing my developer, then putting it in the freezer to get the dev temp down to 20C. At that point it usually take about 5 minutes to get the dev temp down, so next I pull out my pitchers for each of the chemicals, fill up the stop and fix pitchers with the proper amount of chemicals. At that point I dump the pre-wash, and refill with a second pre wash. Then everything sits until the dev reaches temp, at which point the second pre-wash is dumped and the dev goes in.
Even if I didn't have to refrigerate my dev to get to temp, I still have 5 minutes of setup time just pulling out and filling chemicals, and getting everything else ready, that 5 minutes in a water bath doesn't even register. I don't know if it is beneficial or not, but I do like getting the dye out so it doesn't stain my chemicals.
Even if I didn't have to refrigerate my dev to get to temp, I still have 5 minutes of setup time just pulling out and filling chemicals, and getting everything else ready, that 5 minutes in a water bath doesn't even register. I don't know if it is beneficial or not, but I do like getting the dye out so it doesn't stain my chemicals.
OP
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This.
This is the best reason. I love watching the weird dyes flush out of the Xray film. I do presoak if I'm doing a stand development or C-41.
MattKing
Moderator
I do pre-wash.
It is working for me, so I don't stop.
If asked by someone starting out, I respond by saying something like: "decide for yourself, and then stick with your decision unless problems arise".
And I like the colours.
It is working for me, so I don't stop.
If asked by someone starting out, I respond by saying something like: "decide for yourself, and then stick with your decision unless problems arise".
And I like the colours.
I don't. Never have and never had a problem from not doing it. Also never heard a compelling reason to start doing it.
In the 60s in college we always prewashed or soaked our B&W, never given a good reason, seems our GAF recommended although the GAF data sheets from time did not recommend. In the AF we only prewashed if recommended by the manufacture, either film or developer. At this point I do prewash or soak Foma sheet film, 5 to 10 minutes, other wise don't bother.
How about RTFM?
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/files/resources/edbwf.pdf
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/beginne...store=ilford_brochure&___from_store=ilford_uk
I pre-washed ECN-2 film. It is in Kodak instructions.
I pre-washed Fuji Color films because they are pooping enormous amount of some colorful crap into developer, if not pre-washed.
But pre-washing regular bw film. It just... Why?
https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/files/resources/edbwf.pdf
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/beginne...store=ilford_brochure&___from_store=ilford_uk
I pre-washed ECN-2 film. It is in Kodak instructions.
I pre-washed Fuji Color films because they are pooping enormous amount of some colorful crap into developer, if not pre-washed.
But pre-washing regular bw film. It just... Why?
There is a strong reason for pre-washing film if the developer used is replenished rather than one shot.
I can develop two rolls of 120 film in 1 litre of Xtol. At the end of development I replenish at the rate of 90ml per film.
This means that 82% of the original developer plus 18% of new developer goes back into the 1 litre stock bottle.
It also means 82% of all the dye that those two rolls of film gave off is now in my 1 litre stock bottle.
The next two rolls will also leave 82% of their dye in my 1 litre stock bottle; and so on.
The dye accumulates much faster than the replenishment rate can take it out.
Eventually the developer goes very dark, maybe even black, and is heavily loaded with acutance dye, spectral sensitising dye, antihalation dye, and speed trimming dye.
Pre-washing film avoids this nasty conclusion for developers used and replenished for a long time. My Xtol has been in continuous use since 2007 and it is still only the colour of weak tea. I always pre-wash.
I can develop two rolls of 120 film in 1 litre of Xtol. At the end of development I replenish at the rate of 90ml per film.
This means that 82% of the original developer plus 18% of new developer goes back into the 1 litre stock bottle.
It also means 82% of all the dye that those two rolls of film gave off is now in my 1 litre stock bottle.
The next two rolls will also leave 82% of their dye in my 1 litre stock bottle; and so on.
The dye accumulates much faster than the replenishment rate can take it out.
Eventually the developer goes very dark, maybe even black, and is heavily loaded with acutance dye, spectral sensitising dye, antihalation dye, and speed trimming dye.
Pre-washing film avoids this nasty conclusion for developers used and replenished for a long time. My Xtol has been in continuous use since 2007 and it is still only the colour of weak tea. I always pre-wash.
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