Time to break the drought...

MTGseattle · Jan 16, 2023

I processed my first film at home ever today. Instead of making things simple (roll film, stainless roll, stainless tank, d-76), the stuff I'm used to, I went Paterson tank, Mod54 sheet holder, 6 sheets tmax100, and Ilford dd-x.
The negatives had been languishing exposed in the film holders for about 1 year. Aside from 2 sheets touching on the bottom edge, all went reasonably well. These were also the first 4x5 I had exposed in over 20 years. The negs still need to dry for a bit so I plan on getting them on the light table later. I'm guessing none are worthy of printing, but I may be surprised.
I know there's been talk in various threads regarding keeping chemistry at a stable temp. What I tried is a 15watt flat aquarium heater in a 6x13" by 6" deep clear food service bin with a bottom tray over the heater. Over time, this heater will turn 70 degrees to 75 degrees so for a simple water bath, one needs to start a bit cooler than desired. Since it's only a 15 watt heater, it can't really keep heating much past the initial 5 degrees of rise.
Was all of that necessary? Who knows, but I hope to launch into some color processing too and I know that temp is even more important there.

Donald Qualls · Jan 16, 2023

MTGseattle said:
Was all of that necessary?

I've never bothered with temperature control for B&W, I just compensate time for temperature -- 4% longer per Fahrenheit degree colder than 68 F, 4% shorter for every degree warmer (7% if you use Celsius).

For color, I use a sous vide cooker -- run a tub of water a couple degrees cooler than target, start the sous vide and drop the chemical bottles in. Come back in half an hour, everything will be at 100F/38C, ready to go.

MTGseattle · Jan 16, 2023

Nice. The sous-vide method is creeping into a lot of people's workflow. Since it was my first foray at home, I thought I should evaluate things a bit since I don't have a fancy "darkroom" mixing valve and all of that jazz.
The little heater I got was $9.99 and the food service stuff was another $8-10. I haven't looked at what a basic sous-vide runs.
I can at least streamline my process a bit now. I brought every graduated item I could find up to the kitchen.

Sirius Glass · Jan 16, 2023

MTGseattle said:
I processed my first film at home ever today. Instead of making things simple (roll film, stainless roll, stainless tank, d-76), the stuff I'm used to, I went Paterson tank, Mod54 sheet holder, 6 sheets tmax100, and Ilford dd-x.
The negatives had been languishing exposed in the film holders for about 1 year. Aside from 2 sheets touching on the bottom edge, all went reasonably well. These were also the first 4x5 I had exposed in over 20 years. The negs still need to dry for a bit so I plan on getting them on the light table later. I'm guessing none are worthy of printing, but I may be surprised.
I know there's been talk in various threads regarding keeping chemistry at a stable temp. What I tried is a 15watt flat aquarium heater in a 6x13" by 6" deep clear food service bin with a bottom tray over the heater. Over time, this heater will turn 70 degrees to 75 degrees so for a simple water bath, one needs to start a bit cooler than desired. Since it's only a 15 watt heater, it can't really keep heating much past the initial 5 degrees of rise.
Was all of that necessary? Who knows, but I hope to launch into some color processing too and I know that temp is even more important there.

Donald Qualls said:
I've never bothered with temperature control for B&W, I just compensate time for temperature -- 4% longer per Fahrenheit degree colder than 68 F, 4% shorter for every degree warmer (7% if you use Celsius).

For color, I use a sous vide cooker -- run a tub of water a couple degrees cooler than target, start the sous vide and drop the chemical bottles in. Come back in half an hour, everything will be at 100F/38C, ready to go.

As Don suggested do not bother to control the temperature of black & white chemicals, instead adjust the development time for the temperature.

Donald Qualls · Jan 17, 2023

Also worth noting for temperature compensation -- for developers with hydroquinone (D-76, Dektol/D-72, MQ Universal, etc.), don't go below 60F/15C, as hydroquinone loses activity precipitately and non-linearly below this temperature. For single-agent developers (D-23 or Rodinal) or those with, say, ascorbate instead of hydroquinone, this isn't an issue.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Also worth noting for temperature compensation -- for developers with hydroquinone (D-76, Dektol/D-72, MQ Universal, etc.), don't go below 60F/15C, as hydroquinone loses activity precipitately and non-linearly below this temperature. For single-agent developers (D-23 or Rodinal) or those with, say, ascorbate instead of hydroquinone, this isn't an issue.

Also on the other end, do not go below 5 minutes development when the temperature is higher. At that point one must cool the chemicals.

Donald Qualls · Jan 17, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Also on the other end, do not go below 5 minutes development when the temperature is higher. At that point one must cool the chemicals.

This is common advice, but didn't we recently have a thread on developing film in Dektol stock, ca. 1 minute dev time? The concern is, can you get the developer into and out of your tank fast enough to avoid tide marks and flow marks, getting even development, and can you time your start and end consistently enough (as a percentage of the total) to get consistent negatives.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
This is common advice, but didn't we recently have a thread on developing film in Dektol stock, ca. 1 minute dev time? The concern is, can you get the developer into and out of your tank fast enough to avoid tide marks and flow marks, getting even development, and can you time your start and end consistently enough (as a percentage of the total) to get consistent negatives.

I posted about film and not developing under 5 minutes. For paper I use Dektol and standardize on 2 minutes.

MTGseattle · Jan 18, 2023

I decided to use an actual stop bath too (ilfostop), the time on the data sheet (from Ilford website) was 10 seconds. I didn't think I could fill and dump in 10 seconds without making an ungodly mess.
Also, I used the current Ilford in tank wash procedure which if I read the thing correctly equates to 3 fills of the tank. My 3rd tank still had some "tint" to it. The 4th wash was nice and clear.

Donald do you mess with densitometry at all?

relistan · Jan 18, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I posted about film and not developing under 5 minutes. For paper I use Dektol and standardize on 2 minutes.

He was referring to the recent thread about decent results from film in Dektol for 1 minute. Not the conventional way to go, for sure.

Donald Qualls · Jan 18, 2023

MTGseattle said:
Donald do you mess with densitometry at all?

I haven't yet. I bought a diopter set to get the +10 to fit my Pentax 1/21 spot meter, which I've understood can be used as an improvised densitometer (negative on a consistent light source, spot meter small areas of the film) -- but haven't gone beyond checking that the diopter filter fits the meter's lens.

I've been meaning to do full Zone testing with the films I use most for a long time -- but working full time with an hour commute each way doesn't leave much time for experimentation.

relistan · Jan 18, 2023

I have a slightly different variation of this X-Rite process control densitometer and it does a perfectly good job for B&W if you are looking for a cheap solution. They were used in many doctors' and dentists' office for X-Ray developmet process control.

Donald Qualls · Jan 18, 2023

What's the smallest spot that will measure? My spotmeter has a 1 degree spot, and at 100 mm (in focus for +10 diopter) that's about 1.7 mm across. Trades off against ease of use, I'm sure, but I've already spent the money for the meter and diopters, and it should be possible to produce a controlled backlight with a laptop screen (maybe even a smart phone).

relistan · Jan 18, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
What's the smallest spot that will measure? My spotmeter has a 1 degree spot, and at 100 mm (in focus for +10 diopter) that's about 1.7 mm across. Trades off against ease of use, I'm sure, but I've already spent the money for the meter and diopters, and it should be possible to produce a controlled backlight with a laptop screen (maybe even a smart phone).

Looks like it's about the same spot size.

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2023

MTGseattle said:
I decided to use an actual stop bath too (ilfostop), the time on the data sheet (from Ilford website) was 10 seconds. I didn't think I could fill and dump in 10 seconds without making an ungodly mess.
Also, I used the current Ilford in tank wash procedure which if I read the thing correctly equates to 3 fills of the tank. My 3rd tank still had some "tint" to it. The 4th wash was nice and clear.

Donald do you mess with densitometry at all?

I use 30 seconds to a minute. As long as it is 30 seconds that is enough but it is ok to go longer without a problem. I tend to let it go for 1 minute.

Donald Qualls · Jan 18, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I use 30 seconds to a minute.

Same here. The ten seconds figure might be a minimum, that's all it takes to pull the pH of the emulsion low enough that development stops -- but staying in the stop bath longer does no harm (within reason).

MTGseattle · Jan 21, 2023

Thank you both. I figured a minute would be safe.

mrosenlof · Jan 22, 2023

I dump my (one shot) dev, fill with stop, invert 10 times, measure out the correct volume of fix no. 1, invert the tank full of stop another 10 times and dump, pour in the fix.

probably comes out to about a minute.

mshchem · Jan 22, 2023

I remind myself that the "pioneers" used stop bath to preserve the hypo (fixer) as well as to halt development. I always use stop bath, it's fun. 10 seconds is enough to stop a sheet of RC paper in a tray, fully immersed and constant agitation. I go at least 30 seconds once I get it in the film tank, constant agitation, inversion, then drain. This usually takes about 1 minute.

I love developing film, good fun. Mixing up chemistry is fun too. Amazing how many different formulas out there.

I have the luxury of a utility room darkroom (the wife liked the closets, the large empty utility room sold me on the house). I run a small electric radiator in the winter, holds pretty close to 68-70°F, I don't like to go below 65 or above 75, I have my charts to adjust time when required.

I have a Zone VI temperature compensating timer I got with a load of stuff. I use it for print development. I don't immerse the probe into the tray, I just clamp the sensor next to where I store my bottles of Bromophen, everything is at equilibrium temperature wise. Works great. 2 minutes with most papers.

Donald Qualls · Feb 6, 2023

Continuing "breaking the drought" -- I processed three rolls of .EDU Ultra 400 yesterday. They'd been in the developing tank for what must be nearly a year, if not longer. I used the D-23 I mixed not quite a month ago, gave 7:30 for EI 400 (corrected for temperature of 22 C to 6:30) with a one minute agitation cycle, and marked three hash marks on the seasoning tracking label on the stock bottle (it's 2 liters, so it'll need 12 rolls to be fully seasoned and ready to replenish). I recall John Finch's YouTube videos on D-23 replenishment not recommending any extension of developing time as the developer seasons, but I'll go back and rewatch to be sure.

I completely forgot the need to prewash Fomapan 120, with the result that my developer and stop bath and even the fixer to a small extent picked up the green/aqua dye from the film. Won't hurt the developer, but it completely overpowers the indicator dye in the stop bath. And we all know that stuff's prohibitively expensive; I don't know what I'll do. (/sarcasm)

Donald Qualls · Feb 7, 2023

Okay, I'm glad I went back and double checked John Finch's video. Seasoning for D-23 replenished is only three rolls per liter, not six (so I'm already halfway there), but no time extension (other than the usual ongoing adjustments for contrast control). He recommends 30-40 rolls per liter before discarding 3/4 of the tank solution and topping it up with fresh D-23, after which no seasoning is needed (the 1/4 of the original you saved provides the seasoning).

Based on his recommendations, then, I'll make up 1.5 liters of replenisher, and freshen when that's used up (should be about 68 rolls, give or take a couple, at 22 ml per roll).

relistan · Feb 8, 2023

Sounds very economical. Given that it’s a metol based developer, I’m surprised no time extension is needed, since bromide notably inhibits metol.

Donald Qualls · Feb 8, 2023

Three rolls per liter to season is just about the point at which you'd start to extend development if you were using unreplenished stock -- D-76 and Xtol want extension in that range. The replenisher has a little more metol than the fresh stock, as well as the metaborate accelerator, so one you start to replenish, that isn't an issue.

Donald Qualls · Mar 15, 2023

So, replenishment of my D-23 has begun. Yesterday, I processed 4 rolls (120, all in one tank) of .EDU Ultra 400 (aka Fomapan 400), which brought the total for my 2 liter batch of D-23 to seven rolls. I replenished 22 ml (for the seventh roll only) and my D-23 is fully seasoned. Now I have almost a liter of replenisher (approximately 44 more rolls) before it'll be time to discard all but 500 ml of the working solution, top off with 1.5 L of fresh D-23 stock, and mix a fresh back of DK-25R. Once I have the negatives cut and sleeved, I'll load up the exposed roll of GP3 100 (220) that's waiting. The most reasonable time I've found for GP3 100 in D-23 stock appears to be 12 minutes; I'll start there and look at the negatives before loading another roll.

Does anyone have a good lead on negative pages that fit 6x7 better than the ones I have that are perfect (no extra space) for 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9 (4, 3, and 2 frames per roll respectively)? The best I've managed with 6x7 is to cut alternating 3- and 2-frame strips and let the longer ones stick out just a bit.

relistan · Mar 15, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Does anyone have a good lead on negative pages that fit 6x7 better than the ones I have that are perfect (no extra space) for 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9 (4, 3, and 2 frames per roll respectively)? The best I've managed with 6x7 is to cut alternating 3- and 2-frame strips and let the longer ones stick out just a bit.

You want these, where the sleeve is turned sideways:

Still not perfect, but only one frame extra and I usually slide it in behind one of the others.

Time to break the drought...

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