Thoughts on the Bronica S2?

[Cholentpot]

The EC-TL is bigger & heavier than the EC, but works identically except it has AE. It's a nice, well damped machine. The S is smaller, mechanical, and arguably nicer to hold and use. It has less shutter lag, and despite the loud shutter, has a very nice sound (to my ears), and I don't have issues with vibration. By comparison, the Hasselblad 2000 series is louder with a sharp tinny slap - but is even smaller.

Ultimately, I find the EC-TL on the large side to lug around, especially compared to the S2a. And there is something satisfying working with a precise mechanical machine.

Mines been through the wringer, had a tough life. If I'm not careful the WLF just pops off. It's a mechanical machine all right, but not very precise at this point.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

The EC-TL is bigger & heavier than the EC, but works identically except it has AE. It's a nice, well damped machine. The S is smaller, mechanical, and arguably nicer to hold and use. It has less shutter lag, and despite the loud shutter, has a very nice sound (to my ears), and I don't have issues with vibration. By comparison, the Hasselblad 2000 series is louder with a sharp tinny slap - but is even smaller.

Ultimately, I find the EC-TL on the large side to lug around, especially compared to the S2a. And there is something satisfying working with a precise mechanical machine.

I did not realize size difference between EC & S2, weight not sure how much that is different, obviously some due to size alone. From what I can tell (with very limited handling of S2 a long while back) film advance on EC is much much smoother than on S2. It is reassuring and extremely precise. I see almost no difference in frame spacing in the 3 backs I have.

I have the EC and more than like it. There is actually more between EC and EC-TL than just built in TTL/AE. EC mechanically fires only on B, EC-TL on B & 1/40 (EC-TL II was a small downgrade from TL).

 

[James Bleifus]

Just like the rest of us...

A little over a year ago I reached out to Frank Marshman, even though I believed he'd retired from the Bronica repair business. I had acquired a broken 'S' model that I thought would be cool if it could be brought back to life. Turns out, he was still working on them (he says as long as he has enough "donor" cameras, he'll keep doing it) and it was returned to me good as new. He can be reached at camerawiz@msn.com, https://www.manta.com/c/mm0yggb/camera-wiz-camera-repair

Frank is a super-nice guy!

 

[Cholentpot]

Frank is a super-nice guy!

Guess it might be worth while to send it into him for an overhaul? I only paid $25 for the whole system.

 

[cobbu2]

Guess it might be worth while to send it into him for an overhaul? I only paid $25 for the whole system.

I would definitely say yes; I think he charged a little under $200 which I thought was well worth it. Similar to you I paid $34 for my camera (I thought I’d roll the dice). He did a complete overhaul on the entire camera to include winding of the shutter, winding of the mirror mechanism, cleaning of the governor and clutch, cleaning and lubricating the focus mechanism, and cleaning the finder and body.

My circa-1962(?) Bronica S works perfectly and should hopefully provide many years of reliable service. And Frank is definitely an easy person to communicate with, prompt and friendly.

 

[James Bleifus]

+1

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I had an S2a outfit for years, with 40mm, 50mm, 75mm, 100mm, 135mm, 180mm (?), 250mm (?), and a 300mm lens. Not sure on exact focal length for the 180mm and 250mm. I captured a many good images with the outfit. I finally sold it because I was no longer able to focus on the ground glass. I wasn't able to find diopter corrections, like for an RB system.

Here are some points worth mentioning:

> Given it's focal plane shutter, it's relatively easy to adapt other lenses to the body. (Like, barrel lenses.) Inside the bayonet mount are threads that would make it possible to attach a lensboard. In fact, at least one of the adjustable macro attachments (maybe both?) can have a lens attached to it and still be focused at infinity. This is because one removes the helical to attach the accessory macro bellows. This bellows accessory also have the threads inside the bayonet. This was one of the only cameras that could focus at infinity with lenses attached to the macro accessory. (Perhaps the only medium format camera to . . . )

> The camera has a 1/40th sec sync speed. For this reason, even aside from it's weight, I considered it a tripod camera for photographing stills Though one might have the camera set to 1/250th sec, any movement while taking a photo could result in distortion. The same is true of a Rollie SL66.

> I would rather have an S2a, versus an EC. The EC has a "double" mirror mechanism, where half of it goes one way, and the other half goes another during an exposure. As I understand it, this mechanism was well-known for going out of alignment. It's easy enough to have proper seals for an S2a viewfinder. Not so easy to keep an EC in proper alignment.

> The Nikon 40mm and 50mm lenses were prone to flare. While maybe not as sharp, Bronica made f2.8 40mm and 50mm lenses that were smaller and less prone to flare. (Not as much glass.) Both were multi-coated. Very few of the S series Bronica lenses were multi-coated.

> A minor pet peeve, it's hard to find a straight edge one can use to level the camera.

My current medium format cameras (RB67, Mamiya Press, 6x9 view camera) all have between the lens shutters and can truly stop movement in the proper way. (At fast shutter speeds.) Still, all in all, I really enjoyed using that Bronica system.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

> I would rather have an S2a, versus an EC. The EC has a "double" mirror mechanism, where half of it goes one way, and the other half goes another during an exposure. As I understand it, this mechanism was well-known for going out of alignment. It's easy enough to have proper seals for an S2a viewfinder. Not so easy to keep an EC in proper alignment.

It appears this has been spread around without much basis. What does happen is bottom mirror gets damaged. A lot actually judging by condition of for sale bodies. And that happens when 100 mm lens is dismounted together with helical attached. As some of these get actually cracked, surely they may get pushed in permanently out of alignment.

All in all this should not be a deterrent for anyone to considering EC which has a lot of advantages over S line.

 

[abruzzi]

Thanks, that’s some great information. Unfortunately most of the info on Bronica focal plane cameras on the web is loaded with hearsay and sketchy info. I have an original S on the way to me. It probably doesn’t work, but I got it for so cheap, I don’t care, and I may tear it apart to figure out how it all works.

I’ve wanted an early Bronica for a long time, because they are just so pretty (and the Nikkor lenses..) so I’ve thought about starting to consolidate all the information I can find an post it online. We'll see.

so my S arrived today. For $75 from Adorama, I’m quite pleased. They listed it has having a problem where the WLF hood wouldn’t latch closed. That is very true, when I look in the hood, I can see the latch bent. When I have a chance I think I can fix that. Everything else seemed fine when I ran a roll of backing paper through it. I’m going to run an actual roll this weekend to look for light leaks and shutter issues. I’m pretty sure that Adorama saw the broken latch and threw a blow-out price on it (going eBay price would be ~$300) because there was a spent roll of some kind of Kodak C41 film in the back. When I get some new C41 chemicals, I’ll develop it to see if there is anything interesting on it. It also came with a Nikkor-P 75mm, the original strap, leather case/sleeve, and a plastic dark slide holder. The condition of everything is pretty good considering the age with most of the wear on the crank. The leatherette on the camer is actually in good shape.

EDIT: I’ll add that while sitting here at lunch, I fixed the hood using a fork (a clean one...) that was perfectly sized to bend slide the latch between the tines and bend it back into place.

 

[cobbu2]

Nice! It sounds like you have a decent working S. Just remember to be gentle with the film advance winding and when it stops, that’s it. Usually I just wind it with the knob and leave the lever folded just to be sure. And like any camera in the S series, the shutter can be test fired with the back removed. Nice job with the hood by the way.

Congrats and enjoy!

 

[abruzzi]

Yeah, I’m happy. I’m noticing the aperture stop down is a bit sticky on return to wide open, but it’s not the lens. For not I’m going to see if a little exercise gets it going better.

I also don’t know if the shutter is remotely accurate, or if it caps or anything like that.

 

[Cholentpot]

Someone mentioned here adapting any lens to the S2 series. Has any one done this with the helical? I free lensed with a large format lens and it was able to focus but I did not aim for infinity focus. Has anyone built a lens board. If this works it would allow me to use the camera in studio as the shutter would be in the lens and I could then trigger the lights from the lens and leave the camera in bulb mode.

 

[itsdoable]

The inside thread on the helical is 57mm, you can get filter adapters to 55mm and others, along with spacers to get the right back focus. Among the lenses I've adapted was the 120mm Imagon.

 

[Cholentpot]

The inside thread on the helical is 57mm, you can get filter adapters to 55mm and others, along with spacers to get the right back focus. Among the lenses I've adapted was the 120mm Imagon.

So I need to look for a 57mm stopdown filter. The lens needs to be further back in the helical to get infinity I'd think. I'm still not clear about doing this.

Install 57mm adapter ring and then do what? Can you show me a photo of your setup?

 

[itsdoable]

S2a with a Rodenstock Imagon 120mm h/4.5

The focus helicoid is racked out so you can see it, C-C macro ring, 57mm-55mm adapter, 55mm-40mm adapter to imagon optical block

The C-C macro ring is used as a spacer, I could have used 55mm spacers instead.

The 55-40mm adapter can be switched with any size to provide the correct port size for a large format lens, or you can drill a metal lens cap. Just about anything can be mounted into the 57mm thread as long as you can find or make the right adapter.

 

[Cholentpot]

S2a with a Rodenstock Imagon 120mm h/4.5
View attachment 239404

The focus helicoid is racked out so you can see it, C-C macro ring, 57mm-55mm adapter, 55mm-40mm adapter to imagon optical block

The C-C macro ring is used as a spacer, I could have used 55mm spacers instead.

The 55-40mm adapter can be switched with any size to provide the correct port size for a large format lens, or you can drill a metal lens cap. Just about anything can be mounted into the 57mm thread as long as you can find or make the right adapter.

If you don't mind me breaking this down.

Macro ring of some sort with a 57mm thread? 57-55 stopdown - 55-40mm and an optical block on the 55-40.

What is an optical block? And where can I find this macro ring? I have one but it's a smidge too big.

 

[lobitar]

If you don't mind me breaking this down.

Macro ring of some sort with a 57mm thread? 57-55 stopdown - 55-40mm and an optical block on the 55-40.

What is an optical block? And where can I find this macro ring? I have one but it's a smidge too big.

I've heard somwhere there is or was a Minolta extention ring set with 57mm thread.

 

[Cholentpot]

I've heard somwhere there is or was a Minolta extention ring set with 57mm thread.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Macro-Exte...a=1&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

I'm assuming it's this thing. I don't see any thread size but a quick google shows that minolta threads for the tubes is 57mm.

 

[itsdoable]

If you don't mind me breaking this down.

Macro ring of some sort with a 57mm thread? 57-55 stopdown - 55-40mm and an optical block on the 55-40.

What is an optical block? And where can I find this macro ring? I have one but it's a smidge too big.

The Macro ring is a standard extension tube, with 57mm on both ends, male and female. It is not necessary, except to space out the lens to the correct back focus distance. I could have use a bunch of 55mm spacers. The macro rings were common for the Bronica S-series because they were necessary if you wanted portrait distance with longer lenses, as the helicoid did not extend far.

The set (above) probably came standard with the camera.

57mm-55mm adapter is visible, after the macro ring.

The "optical block" is the part that holds only the glass. The Rodenstock Imagon has one optical block, which threads onto the front of the leaf shutter (which is not shown). Most large format lenses have 2 optical blocks, one that threads in front of the shutter unit, and one that threads behind. The thread on the Rodenstock Imagon that I have is 40mm (which fits a Copal #1 shutter). Hence the 55-40mm adapter.

When you adapt a lens, you have to figure out how attachment to the camera (57mm in this case), attachment of the lens (thread or lens board hole), and spacing to provide correct back focus. It will be different (custom) for each lens you want to adapt.

 

[Cholentpot]

The Macro ring is a standard extension tube, with 57mm on both ends, male and female. It is not necessary, except to space out the lens to the correct back focus distance. I could have use a bunch of 55mm spacers. The macro rings were common for the Bronica S-series because they were necessary if you wanted portrait distance with longer lenses, as the helicoid did not extend far.
View attachment 239489
The set (above) probably came standard with the camera.

57mm-55mm adapter is visible, after the macro ring.

The "optical block" is the part that holds only the glass. The Rodenstock Imagon has one optical block, which threads onto the front of the leaf shutter (which is not shown). Most large format lenses have 2 optical blocks, one that threads in front of the shutter unit, and one that threads behind. The thread on the Rodenstock Imagon that I have is 40mm (which fits a Copal #1 shutter). Hence the 55-40mm adapter.

When you adapt a lens, you have to figure out how attachment to the camera (57mm in this case), attachment of the lens (thread or lens board hole), and spacing to provide correct back focus. It will be different (custom) for each lens you want to adapt.

So you are using a Bronica extension tube. It has a 57mm thread.

I've attached odd lenses to wrong cameras before, I understand the basics. Right now I have a copal polaroid 120 large format lens that can be adapted I just need to figure out someway to mount the lens. If the minolta tubes are the right thread size I can use those and a m39 to minolta and screw my lens into the m39 side of the adapter. If the tubes really are 57mm. I do this for EOS and it works.

 

[choiliefan]

My S2A came with a drilled body cap fitted with a Polaroid Rodenstock Ysaron 127mm lens/shutter.
I've shot several longer lenses on the camera using this body cap with various combinations of extension tubes.
Only downside is the body cap doesn't really lock in place with a secure click.

 

[Cholentpot]

My S2A came with a drilled body cap fitted with a Polaroid Rodenstock Ysaron 127mm lens/shutter.
I've shot several longer lenses on the camera using this body cap with various combinations of extension tubes.
Only downside is the body cap doesn't really lock in place with a secure click.

I didn't think of a body cap...that would work pretty well. I'd have to find something that would fit over the helicoid. Or screw in...

 

[Bikerider]

The S2 is banned in UK because the vibration form the camera would set up a seismograph reading well up Richter scale and the noise of the mirror was akin to a Royal Air Force jet breaking the sound barrier .

Seriously though. I owned and used a EC-TL which was a very refined camera for it's day. Sadly the diodes in the camera failed and replacements were not available. (Personally I think the repairer didn't want to work on it)

 

[choiliefan]

The body cap bayonets onto the front of the helicoid or extension tube C-A or C-B..

 

[Cholentpot]

The body cap bayonets onto the front of the helicoid or extension tube C-A or C-B..

Here's where I'm at, I got the lens and shutter mounted on my camera. Focus is limited though, it's more like a macro lens. I found a lens cap that pushes over the helicoid and some tape made it snug.

Here it is sitting in the studio. I'll test it further when the subjects come home.

So mounting this further on some tubes and giving some more space would give me some deeper focus?