This Bodes Bad Things For Film & Papers

[GregY]

Of course it depends on what one wants to do with the prints. For me I have been making hand made books and using Hahnemuhle 17x22double sided cotton paper which runs just over $10 per sheet but
for 8 1/2 x 11 pages I can at least make 8 per sheet and rationalise that it’s $1 each image. So a box of 25 sheets can make up to 200 pages.

Hahnemule prices don't help with the price of enlarging paper.... Ilford warmtone 20x24" (50 sheets).... $818 USD ......$1200 Cad by the time it gets to me......

 

[jeffreyg]

Hahnemule prices don't help with the price of enlarging paper.... Ilford warmtone 20x24" (50 sheets).... $818 USD ......$1200 Cad by the time it gets to me......

I understand. I was just relating what I have been doing. Most of the wet printing I do is pt/pd and that’s costly enough as well but fortunately I have enough supplies from before prices went crazy.

 

[mshchem]

Freestyle, Blue Moon and others all show a similar price breakdown: Kodak B&W films are less expensive than Ilford by a similar margin. It's not just a B&H thing.

Yes but the biggest players effect the prices. I suspect that Harman is choosing to price Kentmere at a value point, Ilford especially HP5 and FP4 as the premium traditional films they are. Hard to know.

 

[retina_restoration]

Yes but the biggest players effect the prices. I suspect that Harman is choosing to price Kentmere at a value point, Ilford especially HP5 and FP4 as the premium traditional films they are. Hard to know.

I simply wanted to point out that the Kodak/Ilford price ratio is similar at all the retailers I looked at, not just at B&H. Unfortunately, the tariffs have now pushed the price of Ilford sheet films beyond what I'm willing to pay. I will not pay $10+ USD per sheet of 8x10 film. I can make a collodion negative for about $2.50!

 

[mshchem]

I simply wanted to point out that the Kodak/Ilford price ratio is similar at all the retailers I looked at, not just at B&H. Unfortunately, the tariffs have now pushed the price of Ilford sheet films beyond what I'm willing to pay. I will not pay $10+ USD per sheet of 8x10 film. I can make a collodion negative for about $2.50!

Yeah, the sheet film thing is a real dilemma. I've got some I need to shoot. I do love Ilford (and Kodak, Foma, Adox) black and white film. I'll be a buyer as long as I'm able. I've been quite satisfied with Kentmere films too. Don't care for the Harman color films, I've bought a few rolls as a measure of supporting the cause.

 

[chuckroast]

I simply wanted to point out that the Kodak/Ilford price ratio is similar at all the retailers I looked at, not just at B&H. Unfortunately, the tariffs have now pushed the price of Ilford sheet films beyond what I'm willing to pay. I will not pay $10+ USD per sheet of 8x10 film. I can make a collodion negative for about $2.50!

This is what has kept me from entering the 8x10 world, even before the tariffs. I keep wondering if I should take a shot at it using x ray film.

 

[retina_restoration]

This is what has kept me from entering the 8x10 world, even before the tariffs. I keep wondering if I should take a shot at it using x ray film.

I have enjoyed working with Fomapan 100, which is literally half the price of the Ilford equivalent, so I see plenty of Fomapan in my future. I'll likely do more 5x7 work and leave 8x10 for when I need to make a larger contact print.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Not very much, I'd guess less than a gram in an 8x10.

that would equate to roughly 1$ of silver /35mm film or an 8x10,but manufacturers charge us up to 10 times that.

 

[koraks]

that would equate to roughly 1$ of silver /35mm film or an 8x10,but manufacturers charge us up to 10 times that.

Must have something to do with the fact that if you take the silver out of the film, there's some material left, still. Maybe that has something to do with it? IDK, just a wild guess.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Regarding the high prices for paper. I stopped printing not because of prices. The walls are full. Plus my wife complains. About pricing for let's say 20x24. Even 16x20" How many sheets do you guys print of that size for private use? Just how big are your walls?

 

[Hassasin]

Since we are all moving into recuperating everything, "renewables" that is, won't enter this discussion, why not go back to old days when silver recovery at labs was not unheard of, and support a system which most users could afford for installation and then get "credit" for sending it back to Ilford/Adox/Foam/Kodak, whoever. For many it would likely take a few years before they accumulated enough silver to make it worthwhile for subscribing it, but ...

 

[Milpool]

I’ve never used paper that large. Mostly 5x7 and some 8x10. I’m still finding Ilford paper expensive at that size. I’ll hang on if I can, but I’m looking into Foma papers now too. I don’t have any of my prints on my walls so that’s not an issue for me.

It’s a good thing I’ve always liked smaller prints. Large paper would be too expensive for me. Realistically I can’t do anything larger than 11x14 in my darkroom anyway. I would still like to look into inkjet more carefully and figure out if going that way (or full digital) would be more or less expensive all in.

Regarding the high prices for paper. I stopped printing not because of prices. The walls are full. Plus my wife complains. About pricing for let's say 20x24. Even 16x20" How many sheets do you guys print of that size for private use? Just how big are your walls?

 

[DREW WILEY]

I haven't printed B&W smaller than 16X20 and 20X24 for a long time, Alan, with the exception of a few 8x10 contact prints and a little bit of small 35mm printing. For quite awhile, I been printing color 20X24, 24X30, and 30X40 inches, plus extra frame dimensions when that has been involved. Yeah, there's only so much wall space. But I have big flat files for the unframed prints, and lots of print boxes too on wire racks. Where it's all gonna go afterwards is going to be a challenge. Possibly another family art vault somewhere - won't be here.

 

[GregY]

Regarding the high prices for paper. I stopped printing not because of prices. The walls are full. Plus my wife complains. About pricing for let's say 20x24. Even 16x20" How many sheets do you guys print of that size for private use? Just how big are your walls?

You're making assumptions that everyone prints for themselves...

 

[pentaxuser]

I had thought there might have been at least one attempt to answer my question of my # 95. There were replies but none which covered the info I sought about what sources produce together the kind of demand that covers Harman's production costs of darkroom paper

Maybe the demand does not cover the cost of production but Harman continues to make darkroom paper because of the adverse effect of not doing so to its overall sales/ reputation? However I just don't know. All I have is the "worm's eye" view and not the necessary "bird's eye" view

pentaxuser

 

[GregY]

I had thought there might have been at least one attempt to answer my question of my # 95. There were replies but none which covered the info I sought about what sources produce together the kind of demand that covers Harman's production costs of darkroom paper

Maybe the demand does not cover the cost of production but Harman continues to make darkroom paper because of the adverse effect of not doing so to its overall sales/ reputation? However I just don't know. All I have is the "worm's eye" view and not the necessary "bird's eye" view

pentaxuser

P, it's a good question, but a tough one to answer. But clearly the paper gets sold..... various sizes are out of stock at big retailers.

 

[retina_restoration]

Clearly there must be enough demand for the likes of Harman but who are the customers who exist in large enough numbers to make it worth Harman's while ?

None of here could possibly answer that question.

 

[Pioneer]

I do not print anywhere near as often as I would like but I keep practicing. I am pretty sure that what is stopping me or slowing me down is not a problem having enough room to hang my prints on my walls. It is more often because when I am finished with the print I really don't want to hang it on my wall. I keep practicing my printing technique but I suspect my problem starts way earlier, back at the start when I pressed the shutter button.

 

[chuckroast]

I do not print anywhere near as often as I would like but I keep practicing. I am pretty sure that what is stopping me or slowing me down is not a problem having enough room to hang my prints on my walls. It is more often because when I am finished with the print I really don't want to hang it on my wall. I keep practicing my printing technique but I suspect my problem starts way earlier, back at the start when I pressed the shutter button.

I know the feeling - I thing all silver printers do. The big jump for me was to quit worrying about making large wall hangings, and instead try to print strong 8x10 workbook prints. These prints are not quite ready to hang on the wall, but they're close to what a final image might be.

This helped me in several ways:

• It's far more economical
• Because it is, I print more stuff than I used to - I was self-editing things because of the costs
• Printing smaller helps reveal images that just look better smaller AND ones that need a bigger canvas
• It's a strong feedback system to help inform your composition and exposure controls during the making of the negative as well as how developing the film affects final outcomes
• You end up with far more printing practice than you otherwise would. The more you do this, the closer the workbook print starts to resemble a final print (sans spotting and dry mounting)

And it doesn't have to be 8x10s. it could just as easily be 5x7s.

 

[bfilm]

Having seen the síze of the Harman set-up and the number of us( relatively few) on a large site like Photrio who make prints in the darkroom plus the limited number of mini-labs still using b&w darkroom printing paper, I cannot figure out where the darkroom paper customers are in terms of sufficient numbers to warrant the current production of darkroom paper

Clearly there must be enough demand for the likes of Harman but who are the customers who exist in large enough numbers to make it worth Harman's while ?

I had thought there might have been at least one attempt to answer my question of my # 95. There were replies but none which covered the info I sought about what sources produce together the kind of demand that covers Harman's production costs of darkroom paper

Maybe the demand does not cover the cost of production but Harman continues to make darkroom paper because of the adverse effect of not doing so to its overall sales/ reputation? However I just don't know. All I have is the "worm's eye" view and not the necessary "bird's eye" view

You mention Photrio being a large forum, but I think it is still a very small representation of the overall number of photographers. I imagine there are probably still quite a few people doing darkroom printing, relatively speaking. Keep in mind, also, that many schools still have darkrooms and film photography and darkroom printing classes.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

You're making assumptions that everyone prints for themselves...

You raise a good point. If you're printing commercially, you have to pass along the extra cost of paper. How much more does that actually add to the sale price?