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This Bodes Bad Things For Film & Papers

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Pioneer said:
Sorry, I haven't used a lot of Ilford film except in large format. I have been going off my older shopping lists but I do see that Ilford prices have jumped as well. I guess they are trying to pay for their newer projects.
Click to expand...

Tariffs account for a chunk of that as well, that and the fact that Kodak actually dropped their prices on many B&W films by 20-30% in the past year.
 
What significant films did Kodak drop in price this past year? Sheet film has skyrocketed, especially in color, but also somewhat in B&W too. 120 roll films have gone up. I haven't seen a single example of a price drop, although it is possible that mass vendors on their own might have lowered the retail price of certain amateur color films I never shoot.
 
DREW WILEY said:
What significant films did Kodak drop in price this past year? Sheet film has skyrocketed, especially in color, but also somewhat in B&W too. 120 roll films have gone up. I haven't seen a single example of a price drop, although it is possible that mass vendors on their own might have lowered the retail price of certain amateur color films I never shoot.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you Drew. IMHO Kodak has about priced themselves out of the market and I just don't understand it. I don't think the Lomo crowd are buying their films. It is bad enough with 35mm but large and medium format films have gone through the roof! I have a little bit of 8x10 Tri-X left in the freezer but when I looked at replacing it a while back I almost choked. I broke down and bought HP5+ and FP4 instead, which I like, but now even their costs have climbed. And eBay prices are going nuts. The inexpensive film sales have gone away and what is left seems as if it were left sitting in the summer sun in the back window of the old Impala for a couple of months.

I am looking at replacing my medium format Portra films and that has soared out of my retiree price range. My last big purchases there was Ektar but no Portra. I have been trolling the clearance sales but even that is getting harder to find at reasonable prices.

I have actually been looking at digital options and, except for my Q7 which is still a favorite, my last digital purchase was a used Pentax *ist DS and my granddaughter walked away with that a couple of weeks ago. If you know someone who will want to sell a full frame Pentax K1 at a decent price I may be interested.

This new Kodacolor option may be a breath of fresh air. I do hope it is but I'll wait until I have tried it out before I make any big purchases. If it is any good I'll buy it but so far that is only 35mm and only color. My 3.5 Rollei is feeling a little unloved. If tariffs really are causing some of this film price crazyness, though I am not personally sure that is the cause, maybe Kodak is trying to bring some of their still film production and sales back into the US. I guess we will have to wait and see.
 
bfilm - that's just a token drop of the bucket, perhaps a temporary promotion or already past overstock situation. And it doesn't help the rest of us much.
 
DREW WILEY said:
bfilm - that's just a token drop of the bucket, perhaps a temporary promotion or already past overstock situation. And it doesn't help the rest of us much.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a fairly selective cost reduction in regard to the range of Kodak films. But I think it has been a permanent (thus far) cost reduction, not a temporary promotion like some of their other discounts.

In the United States, 35mm Kodak Tri-X is less expensive than Ilford HP5 Plus.
 
bfilm said:
Yes, it is a fairly selective cost reduction in regard to the range of Kodak films. But I think it has been a permanent (thus far) cost reduction, not a temporary promotion like some of their other discounts.

In the United States, 35mm Kodak Tri-X is less expensive than Ilford HP5 Plus.
Click to expand...

I believe the small reduction in Tri-X price was a specific move in the USA intended to grab market share from HP5. They probably increased their profits.
 
It wouldn't be the first time with respect to promoting Tri-X as their "legacy" film product, even though it's changed quite a bit over the years, and has largely been superseded by more modern products of their own.
 
loccdor said:
I believe the small reduction in Tri-X price was a specific move in the USA intended to grab market share from HP5. They probably increased their profits.
Click to expand...

It was a worldwide price reduction, but the discount was perhaps not a full 30% everywhere.

The Kodak Alaris or Kodak Professional copy read:

"We have implemented a catalogue price reduction on 135 format Kodak Professional Tri-X 400 black & white negative film. Our two 135 format offerings will see up to a 30% reduction in price, depending on the region."

"Our expectation is that this lower price will be passed on by the retailers to photographers worldwide as inventories turn."
 
bfilm said:
It was a worldwide price reduction, but the discount was perhaps not a full 30% everywhere.

The Kodak Alaris or Kodak Professional copy read:

"We have implemented a catalogue price reduction on 135 format Kodak Professional Tri-X 400 black & white negative film. Our two 135-format offerings will see up to a 30% reduction in price, depending on the region."

"Our expectation is that this lower price will be passed on by the retailers to photographers worldwide as inventories turn."
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. But perhaps the US one was the only case where Tri-X became cheaper than HP5 (because they were similar enough in price here at the time unlike the rest of the world).
 
retina_restoration said:
At B&H today, 120 rolls of Kodak TMY are $8.80 each, whereas Ilford Delta 400 is $12.49 and 35mm prices are similar: Ilford films are considerably more expensive now.
I don't understand how you concluded that Ilford films are less expensive than Kodak in 2025. The reverse was true 3 years ago, but not today.
Click to expand...

How do prices compare in Europe?
 
chuckroast said:
This may be a price distortion due to the new tariffs in place.

In a related note, I read yesterday that the US coffers are now enriched to the tune of almost $1 Trillion (unable to verify this number anywhere, so it is suspect) due to said tariffs. When you see prices increases as above, they should be understood to be "consumer taxation by other means". Whether you support this or not is a matter of your understanding of politics and economics (and how close to the mod's sun you want to fly :wink:
Click to expand...

Tariffs can't be the cause of such high prices from Ilford. I believe the US has a 10% tariff on British goods and 15% on EU goods. SO even if you added 10% to Kodak price of $8.80, brings it to only $9.68, still much less than the US price for Ilford.
 
Pioneer said:
I have to agree with you Drew. IMHO Kodak has about priced themselves out of the market and I just don't understand it. I don't think the Lomo crowd are buying their films. It is bad enough with 35mm but large and medium format films have gone through the roof! I have a little bit of 8x10 Tri-X left in the freezer but when I looked at replacing it a while back I almost choked. I broke down and bought HP5+ and FP4 instead, which I like, but now even their costs have climbed. And eBay prices are going nuts. The inexpensive film sales have gone away and what is left seems as if it were left sitting in the summer sun in the back window of the old Impala for a couple of months.

I am looking at replacing my medium format Portra films and that has soared out of my retiree price range. My last big purchases there was Ektar but no Portra. I have been trolling the clearance sales but even that is getting harder to find at reasonable prices.

I have actually been looking at digital options and, except for my Q7 which is still a favorite, my last digital purchase was a used Pentax *ist DS and my granddaughter walked away with that a couple of weeks ago. If you know someone who will want to sell a full frame Pentax K1 at a decent price I may be interested.

This new Kodacolor option may be a breath of fresh air. I do hope it is but I'll wait until I have tried it out before I make any big purchases. If it is any good I'll buy it but so far that is only 35mm and only color. My 3.5 Rollei is feeling a little unloved. If tariffs really are causing some of this film price crazyness, though I am not personally sure that is the cause, maybe Kodak is trying to bring some of their still film production and sales back into the US. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Amateurs shoot 35mm not large format. So LF will keep their higher prices because photographers who shoot large are serious and will accept higher prices for film. What else are they going to do with their equipment?
 
Large Format volumes are, relatively speaking, miniscule in nature.
And to a significant extent, they require different materials - substrate and some chemical components - and different handling/finishing related materials.
When the resources necessary to finish/confection the product are being used for Large Format, those resources aren't available for the 35mm and 120 lines. Which means that no 35mm or 120 product is being produced - resulting in less profit/contribution to overhead. The pricing has to compensate for those losses.
To a certain extent, the same analysis applies to black and white films - Kodak's volumes for them are less than Harman's.
 
What is ANYONE going to do with their equipment, Alan? It would seem that 35mm film would be the most at risk, since, first, DLSR's preempted most of that, and were in turn largely preempted by cell phone pictures. But it happens to be cool and trendy to be shooting 35mm film. It's even more cool to shoot large format film. All addictions start out small.
 
US prices are screwy from B&H among other things. Who knows what kind of deals are made with the biggest of them all? The success of Kentmere brand in the US may give Harman the opportunity to market Ilford films as a super premium grade?

IDK, I doubt it's got much to do with tariffs as volume etc. Just think of California alone, I couldn't afford a place to park my car let alone a darkroom 😁

Inexpensive film, one more reason to get into Canada 😎

You're not going to see me at the "No Kings" thing tomorrow, Good King Charles, think of me as a lost sheep 🙂
 
Having seen the síze of the Harman set-up and the number of us( relatively few) on a large site like Photrio who make prints in the darkroom plus the limited number of mini-labs still using b&w darkroom printing paper, I cannot figure out where the darkroom paper customers are in terms of sufficient numbers to warrant the current production of darkroom paper

Clearly there must be enough demand for the likes of Harman but who are the customers who exist in large enough numbers to make it worth Harman's while ?


Thanks

pentaxuser
 
pentaxuser said:
Having seen the síze of the Harman set-up and the number of us( relatively few) on a large site like Photrio who make prints in the darkroom plus the limited number of mini-labs still using b&w darkroom printing paper, I cannot figure out where the darkroom paper customers are in terms of sufficient numbers to warrant the current production of darkroom paper

Clearly there must be enough demand for the likes of Harman but who are the customers who exist in large enough numbers to make it worth Harman's while ?


Thanks

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

Paper, especially, has gotten quite expensive though good choices are still to be had.

I remember when classic papers like Kodabromide and Polycontrast were sold 500 sheet boxes and didn't require a second mortgage to buy them. I think these days, 500 sheets would approach $1000 USD.
 
I’m not sure who the customers are, but I’m ever closer to being priced out of Ilford paper.
pentaxuser said:
Having seen the síze of the Harman set-up and the number of us( relatively few) on a large site like Photrio who make prints in the darkroom plus the limited number of mini-labs still using b&w darkroom printing paper, I cannot figure out where the darkroom paper customers are in terms of sufficient numbers to warrant the current production of darkroom paper

Clearly there must be enough demand for the likes of Harman but who are the customers who exist in large enough numbers to make it worth Harman's while ?


Thanks

pentaxuser
Click to expand...
 
What size paper? Today if it were 16X20, good paper would cost you at least $5000 for 500 sheets. There demand is certainly still there; but at what I point is someone like me going to be forced into contact printing? - or I could concentrate on RA4 color printing instead, which is still relatively affordable.
 
DREW WILEY said:
What size paper? Today if it were 16X20, good paper would cost you at least $5000 for 500 sheets. There demand is certainly still there; but at what I point is someone like me going to be forced into contact printing? - or I could concentrate on RA4 color printing instead, which is still relatively affordable.
Click to expand...

Of course it depends on what one wants to do with the prints. For me I have been making hand made books and using Hahnemuhle 17x22double sided cotton paper which runs just over $10 per sheet but
for 8 1/2 x 11 pages I can at least make 8 per sheet and rationalise that it’s $1 each image. So a box of 25 sheets can make up to 200 pages.
 
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