Darn, all of the good "dead" jokes have already been used.
The Zone System is Dead
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A
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MattKing
Moderator
I don't know, so far I've seen no reference to parrots....
Zones passed on! This System is no more! It has ceased to be! Zones expired and gone to meet 'is maker! Zones a stiff! Bereft of life, Zone rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed Zone System to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! Zones metabolic processes are now history! Zones off the twig! Zone System has kicked the bucket, Zone System has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-SYSTEM!!
To previsualize, or not to previsualize, that is the question...
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to shoot intuitively like Salgado, or take 400 meter readings to try to compress 17 stops to 7....
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to shoot intuitively like Salgado, or take 400 meter readings to try to compress 17 stops to 7....
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Zones? Zones? We don't need no stinkin' zones!
Some believe that all the paper grades cam be reproduced using filters. It just isn't true. Some of the grades are hard or impossible to achieve. So the Zone System is still very useful.
Thankfully we were spared that one. :}
Was it not Brett Weston who said he did not need a stinkin light meter??? I think he did alright with what was in his head.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
hi anderw
i went to youtube and seached "zone system is dead" and found this
hope it is the video or the OP stole someone elses' wind
==
RE the zone system
not sure if it is alive or dead but it can be useful
with or without film tests ...
typically film tests say 1/2 box speed is the iso ... and tne rest is playing the slide flute ...
i tried to watch the vieo but after 3 seconds it stopped and wouldn't let me watch anymore
good luck with your video !
Thank you, John!
I agree, AA developed the Zone system along with a fellow teacher at the Center for Design in LA in the 40s, he did update his system over the years as technology advanced. Meters are much better, film and paper have evolved. Understanding the principles has been very helpful, in terms of daily use, I relie on my TTL meters, in tricky lighting an incident meter, tested my choice of film and developer for personal EI or ISO, scaled to grade 2 to 2 1/2 graded and VC film.
Graded paper eliminated the need for Zone-System type film/contrast control, much to the delight of rollfim enthusiasts.
David A. Goldfarb
Moderator
There are all kinds of ways of calibrating one’s process, if that’s something one wants to do. It’s a bit dramatic to say that one approach causes the death of another approach.
“Who wants to print step wedges, when you could just read the negs directly with a densitometer?”
“Who wants to pay for a densitometer that just takes up counter space most of the time, when you could just print step wedges?”
“A good photographer should know what a good neg looks like and can develop by inspection.”
“Dang it, as long as you can read newsprint through the shadows, you’re fine!”
There are perfectly valid answers to all these questions. Fortunately, with most such testing schemes, as long as you don’t change your materials, processing conditions, preferred lighting, etc. too often, you can spend a few days testing and then get back to the business of making photographs with the requisite knowledge in hand.
“Who wants to print step wedges, when you could just read the negs directly with a densitometer?”
“Who wants to pay for a densitometer that just takes up counter space most of the time, when you could just print step wedges?”
“A good photographer should know what a good neg looks like and can develop by inspection.”
“Dang it, as long as you can read newsprint through the shadows, you’re fine!”
There are perfectly valid answers to all these questions. Fortunately, with most such testing schemes, as long as you don’t change your materials, processing conditions, preferred lighting, etc. too often, you can spend a few days testing and then get back to the business of making photographs with the requisite knowledge in hand.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2011
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- 8x10 Format
Yeah, ain't we a macho bunch! I have gotten perfect exposures working from memory, even chrome film, after dropping my meter in an ice water creek up in the high country. But with 8x10 color film + processing running around 30 bucks a pop, and even some b&w nearly a hundred bucks for only ten sheets, I think it makes sense to keep a meter around for a "second opinion".
Hi, the links were posted at the very end.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
hi anderw
i went to youtube and seached "zone system is dead" and found this
hope it is the video or the OP stole someone elses' wind
==
RE the zone system
not sure if it is alive or dead but it can be useful
with or without film tests ...
typically film tests say 1/2 box speed is the iso ... and tne rest is playing the slide flute ...
i tried to watch the vieo but after 3 seconds it stopped and wouldn't let me watch anymore
good luck with your video !
+1
What I want from b&w photography is to make an interesting picture/print that people, especially myself, enjoy looking at and if the Zone System as taught by Ansel Adams, Fred Picker and others will help me reach that goal, then what they teach is not dead. Certainly, films, papers, chemicals have changed over the years but members of this group should be smart enough to use the lessons taught, with currently available tools and supplies. If one can't (or more likely will not), there is digital pictures taking....Regards!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
- Messages
- 29,832
- Format
- Hybrid
well, i am glad the zone system is dead
mr perez declared film photography dead IDK 12 years ago
its about time the zone system died too ...
mr perez declared film photography dead IDK 12 years ago
its about time the zone system died too ...
Anyone who says the Zone System is dead doesn't really understand it. Look in The Print where Adams describes fitting the film''s H&D curve to that of the paper.
everyone has an opinion, even the meter... who do you want to trust
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2012
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- 35mm RF
When I shoot sheet film I use the iTFu* system, which is far superior in simplicity to the Zone system, and requires a lot less brain juice.
I make sure I get enough exposure on the neg, usually exposing a stop or two more than my incident meter suggests, then develop it in Pyrocat. The staining/tanning takes care of the highlights and I always get a printable neg.
ITFU* means Impossible-To-F#ck-Up.
*Patent pending.
I make sure I get enough exposure on the neg, usually exposing a stop or two more than my incident meter suggests, then develop it in Pyrocat. The staining/tanning takes care of the highlights and I always get a printable neg.
ITFU* means Impossible-To-F#ck-Up.
*Patent pending.
Well, it's only ITFU because I haven't tried it yet...alas.
My ITFU system involves only taking pictures of the blank walls. That way I can take 57 of them, print them however I please, frame them with the caption "Wall", and make about sixty million bucks.
Oh, I also have to change my name to "Jacques".
Oh, I also have to change my name to "Jacques".
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