I just didn't underline or circle it, so its easy to miss.
Yeah, going over that phrase with a highlighter isn't a bad idea.Easy to miss means not prominent. I read the quick-start guide, but that factoid didn't register. I'm sure others will make this mistake, so perhaps highlight it in yellow or something?
I absolutely agree that errors can add up. I actually thought a lot about this when deciding how to do the batch measuring of the strips I ship with the PD. The issue is that if every step has an instrument that can only muster +/- 0.02D, errors multiply and eventually you have a problem.I guess we'll have to be content with the fact that Stouffer's numbers vary more than we'd like. In a system, multiple errors add up. We can argue that "nobody can see this error", but when adding the other errors in the system, it can become obvious as a print that's too light/dark or contrast is off. Wedge densities will be crucial for my work in both printing, and for creating H-D curves for film, as I'll soon be working on developers. So all this is why I'm putting so much effort into getting accurate densities of this wedge.
I think Stouffer also claims NIST Traceable, and also offers the certificate if you pay them extra.You mentioned NIST and Acurad. Applied Image also appears to make them: https://www.appliedimage.com/product-category/gray-scales-step-tablets/
Do you know anything about them?
This is probably the wedge ("tablet") you want: https://www.appliedimage.com/product/st-22/
They say that "NIST Traceable products are calibrated to order," so perhaps that would be your "gold standard" for much less than $5k.
I absolutely agree that errors can add up
... mind keeps going back to these step tolerances increasing with increasing density.
It's simple - just look at the graphs in posts #38, #48 et al.. The lines start at a common point at 0.00 and then diverge at higher densities - all the instruments are linear they just look at the sample in a different way.
For some reason the lyrics to a Crosby, Stills & Nash song keep running through my head:Yes I understand why the lines begin to diverge due to greater deviations in readings with increasing density......but my question is......if the PD measurements are within Stouffer's stated tolerances on the much more dense half of the wedge.......is there an actual "error" that needs addressing in the calibration of the PD? Perhaps I'm asking an invalid question.
I wouldn't call it an "error"
Maybe I used the wrong terminology, or we're simply mincing words over definitions of terms. So let's stop using the word "error," but rather "difference from expected value." Yes, by the dictionary definition, that's the same thing, but a lot of this conversation is really about trying to find out what the expected value should actually be.Derek and albada are using the that wordology, as if there's some kind off error that needs fixing........I'm just trying to follow along since I now own a PD.
This. Modern sensors and LED-based light sources do not really have much of a drift problem, but there are still a number of variables that do need calibration to get the expected results.Programming this multiplicative 'fudge factor' into the densitometer is what transmission densitometer calibration is all about. The calibration is there to compensate for differences in spectral response and optical geometry between the factory's reference unit and yours. In the bad old days of analog logarithmic converters the calibration procedure was also there to correct for drift in the electronics and if you have one of these older models then frequent calibration checks are in order.
Reflection is actually both easier and harder.Reflection densitometry is a bit more complicated as you need a reference white sample and you really need Ulbricht spheres for the source and the detector.
Maybe I used the wrong terminology, or we're simply mincing words over definitions of terms. So let's stop using the word "error," but rather "difference from expected value."
And the issue is described in Mees the Theory of the Photographic Process. Mees mentioned this discrepancy led to a fight between Hurter and Driffield and their critics.
Something that is not obvious is that the commercial densitometer have a certain optical geometry according to ISO standards. This is discussed briefly in "The Handbook of Photographic Science and Engineering," both issues have a couple pages. If someone uses a different geometry, at least with silver film, I would expect the results to have a different contrast.
I pretty much concur.My conclusion of all this is:
Measure the densities of your wedge under actual conditions.
Measure them using the same optical geometry and same light-source as in actual usage. Densities differ significantly based on factors such as spectrum and geometry. Thus, there is no single density.
I have no idea why, but perhaps testing your system with a coarser grain film might give some clues. Fwiw the standard "red" densitometer responses are not too far away, spectrally, and don't seem to see such an issue. Maybe it's related to the LEDs having a narrower spectral zone?Why would a red light produce a higher slope on a Stouffer wedge? My theory is that the spacing of grains in the wedge caused destructive interference at my red wavelength of 660 nm.
Bill and I are both glad we got one.
My new Stouffer Step Wedge came in today. It is very clean this time.............they packaged the wedge inside a clear plastic sleeve before placing it in the Stouffer rigid envelope so that the wedge does not come in contact with calibration sheet. I suspect they will do that in all instances going forward. Below are the Stouffer calibration readings up against the PD readings. PD-cal 1 is with the PD calibrated using the CAL-HI density of 2.92 off the calibration strip that came with it. PD-cal 2 is with the PD calibrated using step #20 (density of 2.84) of the Stouffer step wedge. Just as Derik had predicted, the PD was more in line with Stoufer readings at greater densities when calibrating from step #20.
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