The return of the Syrup: HC-110 in the water-free version manufactured again

runswithsizzers

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Alex Benjamin said:
Only information available regarding development times for Adox HC-110 Professional is on the bottle.
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Hopefully, there is more information on the back of the bottle? Instructions for making dilutions, storage life of dilutions, etc? If not, we are forced to track down information about "the German version produced until 2022" for more specific information. Would that 2022 product have the Kodak brand on it, or Tetenal, or something else? What was the Tetenal version called, and did Tetenal release data sheets?

Alex Benjamin said:
What's strange is that their HC-110 is not part of their listed developers on their website.
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I agree. It's been 8 months since the announcement that opens this thread, and I cannot find a single mention of Adox HC-110 Pro on their website. Not one. (At least not on the English version of the website.)
 

pentaxuser

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Have you looked at the FotoImpex site? It is that one that carries Adox products It is there - I have just looked
I have no idea of the situation in the U.S. but it is certainly the one that makes sense for us in Europe to buy, both in terms of availability, reliabilty( it's clearly the genuine syrupy one) and price


pentaxuser
 

Alex Benjamin

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Don't know about the US either, but it's available in Canada. I have two bottles at home, bought in Montreal.
 

MattKing

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Use J-24 for the Kodak Professional High Concentrate product - that performance is what the developer is intended to provide.
 

runswithsizzers

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Yes, the Fotoimpex website shows ADOX HC-110 PRO is in stock and available for sale. The Fotoimpex page makes MSDS available for download, however, they do not provide any other technical data like dilutions, storage, and developing times (other than rough guidelines that are printed on the front label of the bottle). Normally I go to the manufacturer for that kind of information rather than a retailer, but some retailers provide a link to the manufacturer's data sheet or specific information about how to use the product. However, as previously mentioned, if the Adox website mentions ADOX HC-110 PRO, I can't find it.

The Fotoimpex page also mentions"
"Some chemicals must not be transported in a world airfreight parcel. Please choose your country in the checkout process to see if we can ship this item to you. We have solutions for many countries."
... so it is possible delivery from Berlin to the USA may go by boat?

Alex Benjamin said:
Don't know about the US either, but it's available in Canada. I have two bottles at home, bought in Montreal.
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To be clear, are you saying you bought the new ADOX HC-110 PRO in Montreal?
 

Alex Benjamin

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Alex Benjamin

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I've tried it over the week-end with Delta 100, Tri-X, FP4+ and HP5+. It works exactly as I remember the old HC-110 working, in that it's a beautiful but extremely unforgiving developer.

By "unforgiving" I mean that development times are so short, and this developer so active, that 15 to 30 seconds one way or the other has a huge impact (a complain Barry Thornton had with HC-110 and the reason why he abandoned it). The recommendations on the label are good starting points, but in that minute span they suggest, you can go from a gorgeous negative to a nearly unprintable one.

So it's a developer that, more than many others, needs a lot of testing, both for the speed at which you rate your film, and for the development times that works best for you.

runswithsizzers said:
Hopefully, there is more information on the back of the bottle? Instructions for making dilutions, storage life of dilutions, etc?
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Absolutely none. Just the usual warnings about toxicity.
 

DREW WILEY

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There's nothing particularly fussy about HC-110; it was marketed for its consistency. And if your development times are too short, you're either using too strong a concentration or too high a temp. I don't know how one could be 30 sec off with any developer; that sounds careless. Perhaps you are mixing it incorrectly.
 

pentaxuser

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Would the suggestion provided by Covington Innovations, which Matt mentioned, solve the "critical" nature of the short times in the case of some films, namely by moving to higher dilution?

pentaxuser
 

logan2z

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pentaxuser said:
Would the suggestion provided by Covington Innovations, which Matt mentioned, solve the "critical" nature of the short times in the case of some films, namely by moving to higher dilution?

pentaxuser
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FWIW, I use dilution H which is 1:63. That results in a 10 1/2 minute development time for HP5+ @ 68 degrees F.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Well, Drew, while it's true that I didn't exactly pass my high-school math classes with flying colours, I do know how to mix 1+31 .

Now if you took the time to read the Adox HC-110 label, you'd have realized that they acknowledge the fact I noted, by stating "High dilutions for contrast control possible!".

At dilution B, HC-110 is fussy, and, when the manufacturer suggests development times as "Aprox. 5-6 minutes," well, then it is quite possible to be 30 seconds off without being careless.

pentaxuser said:
Would the suggestion provided by Covington Innovations, which Matt mentioned, solve the "critical" nature of the short times in the case of some films, namely by moving to higher dilution?
Click to expand...

As I just mentioned, Adox does suggest moving to higher dilutions to better control contrast.

I didn't have much time to work with it this weekend, so just went for 1+31 with FP4+ and Delta 100, and Bruce Barnbaum's 1+33 dilution with HP5+.

For Delta 100, I went for 6 minutes, Ilford's suggested time for HC-110, and the upper limit time suggested by Adox for 100 ASA films. The negative is clearly over-developed, and I'm sure shaving off 30 seconds will make a big difference.
 

DREW WILEY

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Generally, the instructions were to dilute the concentrate 1:3 for stock usage, then further dilute that down to whatever working strength you want. I happen to dilute all the way down from concentrated syrup; but I'm very careful how I do it, since the concentrate can stick to the sides and bottom of the graduate and come out unevenly.

5 or 6 minutes is ridiculously fast, and somewhat hard to control. Something is amiss. You might want to check the Massive Development Chart for more typical usage. Also note Logan's preference for dilution H on a previous post.

I never trust Barnbaum because he preaches placing shadows values belly-button high up on the curve. That kind of old-school "thick negative" technique might have made sense back in the day when contact papers were routine and light meters dicey. But it also explains why he has to bleach his print highlights so much, due to overexposure. Yes, he gets the look he wants; but he does it the hard way.
 
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MattKing

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tykos

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Fotoimpex and adox is the same thing, and fotoimpex' website is usually more spot-on than adox' one.
They don't link any data sheet, but they write "The ADOX HC-110 Professional offers all the qualities of the original Kodak recipe". There's a big "wink wink" appearing in this sentence, and a "yeah, it's the same kodak stuff made by the same kodak contractor but we cannot say it out loud so, you know, just check their datasheet".
 

brbo

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Do you know that for a fact?

Since that would mean that Tetenal (in some form) is back in production which would definitely be a new information. Care to provide the source of your info?
 

halfaman

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brbo said:
Do you know that for a fact?

Since that would mean that Tetenal (in some form) is back in production which would definitely be a new information. Care to provide the source of your info?
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The last incarnation of Tetenal didn't produce anything, they only kept the formulas and the rest was done by a near contractor. I guess it was not difficult for Mirko to have access to both things.
 

tykos

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brbo said:
Do you know that for a fact?

Since that would mean that Tetenal (in some form) is back in production which would definitely be a new information. Care to provide the source of your info?
Click to expand...

it's the first hc-110 clone that came in the "original" (quote) form (well, bellini has a hc developer, more liquid, that they say has the same formulation of the kodak's 2019 product), it came in a time when kodak's products were nowhere to be found, they say to use the original sources for times and dilutions.
They say it's made in Germany.

Plus: the thinner adox 110-developer has an MSDS with the SINO PROMISE logo, plus a big "KODAK HC-110 DEVELOPER" as a "product identifier". The website says "Kodak chemicals are temporarily unavailable this is why we purchase the original mixture made to the exact same formulary which has been sold by Kodak in the past three years.".

These are the facts we all know. Don't know if tetenal produces anything or if tetenal was the original producer, but we know that adox has a link with that producer and can buy stuff because of [speculation following] the recent mess in kodak's supply/distribution chain and patents.

However, i was just answering to someone claiming there's no datasheet on the website.
 

Prest_400

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halfaman said:
The last incarnation of Tetenal didn't produce anything, they only kept the formulas and the rest was done by a near contractor. I guess it was not difficult for Mirko to have access to both things.
Click to expand...

Or ADOX themselves just could reproduce the syrupy HC110 as they are well capable with their own manufacturing capability, just gathering what might be needed from the former supplier (Tetenal). A precedent is the C41 and E6 chemistry which has been created to fill the void left by Tetenal. The non syroup 110 developer "we purchase the original mixture made to the exact same formulary which has been sold by Kodak" read to me as bulk repackaging from the (American, PSI?) manufacturer.

Then there is the whole new interesting IP issue that Kodak itself are finding, shown by not using the brand names anymore with "High Concentrate" and "XDev", which ADOX had in the past with Rodinal's brand name (Adonal for trademark reasons). If anything, (re)creating datasheets instead of pointing to Kodak's would be a very good branding improvement.
 

pentaxuser

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Prest_400 said:
Or ADOX themselves just could reproduce the syrupy HC110 as they are well capable with their own manufacturing capability, .
Click to expand...

That's too simple an explanation, isn't it? I was just on the point of believing that the Adox "syrup was probably more like a cough syrup that I sometimes need in the winter than being a version of HC110 that is for all practical purposes the former Kodak "syrupy" HC110

pentaxuser
 

Donald Qualls

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Alex Benjamin said:
development times are so short, and this developer so active, that 15 to 30 seconds one way or the other has a huge impact
Click to expand...

My solution to this was always to use higher dilutions. 1:63 and up were my go-to levels.
 

chuckroast

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Donald Qualls said:
My solution to this was always to use higher dilutions. 1:63 and up were my go-to levels.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this might be format-dependent though. I found that HC-110 1+63 tends to become very much an acutance developer which is great with large format, but somewhat less great with smaller negatives - at least to my taste.
 

Rayt

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I used dilution E 1:47 with TMY because it was easier to measure with Paterson 1L tanks. I did my best to avoid errors and I was happy with the look. I haven’t processed film in 5 years and am looking forward to this syrup when Freestyle gets some.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Donald Qualls said:
My solution to this was always to use higher dilutions. 1:63 and up were my go-to levels.
Click to expand...

Same for me, but I wanted to try the Adox HC-110 at the 1:31 dilution to see if it gave me the same results and experience I had when using the old kodak syrup.
 
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