The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

Huss · Feb 25, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Can anyone explain how this would happen? Pressure plate causes scratches but only at the end of the roll (presumably the last frames exposed?).

I’m not (necessarily) questioning the diagnosis, I just can’t picture what is happening mechanically.

It could be due to tension in the cassette easing off then getting tighter as the film is gradually fed through the camera. Or as the roll gets thicker on the receiving spool it changes the angle of the film feed.

snusmumriken · Feb 25, 2023

Huss said:
It could be due to tension in the cassette easing off then getting tighter as the film is gradually fed through the camera. Or as the roll gets thicker on the receiving spool it changes the angle of the film feed.

At the receiving end, the film runs over the sprocket drive roller after the pressure plate, so the angle as it leaves the pressure plate should be unchanged no matter how much film is on the take-up spool. At the other end there’s admittedly a bit more play, but I would have thought the film cassette ensures a pretty constant feed angle, even though the tension varies.

The scratches you got, were they always at the same place width-wise across each film, and was that the same place as Jono Slack’s?

I don’t suppose Leica will ever tell us what they figure out!

faberryman · Feb 25, 2023

Would Teflon coating the pressure plate help? On late night TV, those eggs really slide off the skillet.

warden · Feb 25, 2023

faberryman said:
Would Teflon coating the pressure plate help? On late night TV, those eggs really slide off the skillet.

I think we’re avoiding Teflon for environmental concerns now. But a little German nose oil applied at the factory ought to do the trick.

koraks · Feb 25, 2023

warden said:
I think we’re avoiding Teflon for environmental concerns now.

I don't think so, really. PTFE is still commonly used. Buy a non-stick frying pan and it's still PTFE coated in all likelihood. There's also no legislation underway to the best of my knowledge to ban its use.

warden · Feb 25, 2023

koraks said:
I don't think so, really. PTFE is still commonly used. Buy a non-stick frying pan and it's still PTFE coated in all likelihood. There's also no legislation underway to the best of my knowledge to ban its use.

I was just being ridiculous. But nose oil is safer, and cast iron is better anyway. ;-)

koraks · Feb 25, 2023

Sorry about that

warden said:
and cast iron is better anyway

Yeah...we were gifted a full set of non-stick pans two weeks ago. I got exactly a single time of use out of them before a sizeable chunk of the PTFE lining of one of them stripped clean off somehow. You're right; we should move to cast iron already.

mshchem · Feb 25, 2023

Someone should call out the author of this review and ask him about the scratches. This is extraordinary!

mshchem · Feb 25, 2023

My MP and M6 are working fine, knock on wood.

Radost · Feb 25, 2023

faberryman said:
Would Teflon coating the pressure plate help? On late night TV, those eggs really slide off the skillet.

Focus will be off

faberryman · Feb 25, 2023

Radost said:
Focus will be off

A thin coating of Teflon (or other non-stick surface) on the pressure plate would cause focus to be off? The pressure plate pushes the film against the rails. I don't think it would be able to push the film though the opening and change the film plane.

madNbad · Feb 25, 2023

Didn’t the M3 begin with glass pressure plates to avoid this problem?

Radost · Feb 25, 2023

faberryman said:
A thin coating of Teflon (or other non-stick surface) on the pressure plate would cause focus to be off? The pressure plate pushes the film against the rails. I don't think it would be able to push the film though the opening and change the film plane.

Judging by where the scratches are in the middle i think the pressure plate can band the film on the center.

snusmumriken · Feb 25, 2023

Radost said:
Judging by where the scratches are in the middle i think the pressure plate can band the film on the center.

But then why not the whole length of the film?

Radost · Feb 25, 2023

snusmumriken said:
But then why not the whole length of the film?

Because of the rails. But I think if you increase the size of the back plate it would push the film and band it in the middle. Test it with a used film.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2023

warden said:
I think we’re avoiding Teflon for environmental concerns now. But a little German nose oil applied at the factory ought to do the trick.

It would be Swedish, not German nor Finish.

logan2z · Feb 25, 2023

madNbad said:
Didn’t the M3 begin with glass pressure plates to avoid this problem?

I thought that caused other problems, like static discharge.

miha · Feb 25, 2023

Nothing new here. Leica already offered this "feature" in the past https://leica.nemeng.com/012c.shtml

Pieter12 · Feb 25, 2023

It would be simple to allow for any effect a Teflon coating would have on the thickness of the pressure plate. And AFAIK, the concerns about Teflon and such were health concerns from overheating and ingesting it, something even the most rabid Leica enthusiast is unlikely to do, at least with their camera.

madNbad · Feb 25, 2023

logan2z said:
I thought that caused other problems, like static discharge.

It may not be any worse with the glass plates than metal ones. If the glass plates developed a crack, then the chance of scratching the film was increased. It was more likely the metal ones were both more robust and a whole lot less expensive to make.

snusmumriken · Feb 25, 2023

Radost said:
Because of the rails. But I think if you increase the size of the back plate it would push the film and band it in the middle. Test it with a used film.

Are you understanding ‘width’ where I said ‘length’? My point is that it seems not all frames are scratched. Huss says it’s only the end (cassette end?) of the film.

Huss · Feb 25, 2023

There no need to reinvent the wheel. Obviously the solution is to not use garbage pressure plates. Fix the issue at the supplier. And actually have a QA process. Not a bullsh1t qa process where they just sign a little card pretending they checked the gear. None of the other cameras I have scratch film. Whether it is a full plastic cheapo or a Rolleiflex.

There is no mystery here. It is garbage quality.

NB23 · Feb 25, 2023

My M6 2023 pressure plate is insanely smooth and good.
Not a single scratch.
Not even through a microscope.

There is no mystery here: it is excellent quality.

4season · Feb 25, 2023

Although you shouldn't have to, why not DIY a fix for the pressure plate? Could have things back in service in a matter of minutes, not weeks, because the amount of metal which needs to be polished away is minuscule. This is a classic teething problem for some new Leica M cameras dating back to the 1970s if not earlier: The late Ted Grant mentioned something of the sort with a new M4, which I think he solved with sandpaper.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2023

4season said:
Although you shouldn't have to, why not DIY a fix for the pressure plate? Could have things back in service in a matter of minutes, not weeks, because the amount of metal which needs to be polished away is minuscule. This is a classic teething problem for some new Leica M cameras dating back to the 1970s if not earlier.

And void the warranty and in one swell foop!

The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

Huss

snusmumriken

faberryman

warden

koraks

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warden

koraks

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mshchem

mshchem

Radost

faberryman

madNbad

Radost

snusmumriken

Radost

Sirius Glass

logan2z

miha

Pieter12

madNbad

snusmumriken

Huss

NB23

4season

Sirius Glass

The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

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