The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

[BradS]

I cannot image laying out $5500 for a new film camera let alone going after the pressure plate (of all things) with sand paper on a brand new $5500 film camera! It is completely insane!

 

[4season]

And void the warranty and in one swell foop!

Do it neatly, and no one will be the wiser!

 

[BradS]

Seriously, what an embarrassing cluster flog. Leica's own brand ambassador publishes a review of a camera known to scratch film and the official review includes hideously scratched negatives but the text of the review makes no mention of the plainly observable, perfectly straight and parallel scratches along the length of the negatives. What's the not-so-subtle message here? Yeah, it scratched the shit outta the negatives but I cannot talk about that because if I did, then I'd be summarily relieved of this cushy brand ambassador gig but in order to maintain my own integrity, I'm showing you plainly observable evidence that the negs are scratched to hell. Work it out on your own.

 

[BradS]

Do it neatly, and no one will be the wiser!

That crew of highly trained quality control inspectors would be all over it...oh, wait...yeah, never mind.

 

[4season]

Seriously, what an embarrassing cluster flog. Leica's own brand ambassador publishes a review of a camera known to scratch film and the official review includes hideously scratched negatives but the text of the review makes no mention of the plainly observable, perfectly straight and parallel scratches along the length of the negatives. What's the not-so-subtle message here? Yeah, it scratched the shit outta the negatives but I cannot talk about that because if I did, then I'd be summarily relieved of this cushy brand ambassador gig but in order to maintain my own integrity, I'm showing you plainly observable evidence that the negs are scratched to hell. Work it out on your own.

Who can say what's up with that, could be simply an errant film squeegee.

But the secret of Leica M happiness is not to expect perfection, or for anyone to kiss your butt just because you paid a lot of money. With Leica service, you queue up with everyone else, and it's best not to sweat the small stuff.

 

[Pieter12]

Who can say what's up with that, could be simply an errant film squeegee.

But the secret of Leica M happiness is not to expect perfection, or for anyone to kiss your butt just because you paid a lot of money. With Leica service, you queue up with everyone else, and it's best not to sweat the small stuff.

But that is part of what people expect when you pay a premium price for a product.

And as far as the squeegee possibility goes, why post the damaged photos in the first place? Lack of attention to detail on the part of both the ambassador and Leica for not noticing and not pulling the post once it was pointed out. Or maybe no one has brought it to their attention? Speaks volumes about how much care actually goes into both the product and its marketing. Leica makes excellent lenses and cameras, but they seem to be sliding and riding on their reputation. And throw in a bit of arrogance on top of that.

 

[BradS]

Who can say what's up with that, could be simply an errant film squeegee.

The funny/tragic thing is, it doesn't really matter how the scratches got there - squeegie, scanner, Paterson reels, kitchen floor, PhotoFlo, whatever, make any excuse you want...doesn't matter. They're right there in plain sight, they're long and straight and parallel, one can easily imagine how the camera might be responsible, and they're inextricably associated with the new M6 which has been reported by several (un)lucky new owners to scratch film right out of the box, from the factory. One and one makes two. The unspoken, implied message is unmistakable....Think about it: Official Leica Brand Ambassador, reviews 2022 Leica M6, displays scratched negatives, and the nature of the scratches is entirely consistent with the hypothesis, "the new M6 scratches film". One might assume that a Leica Brand Ambasador would not make such apparently careless mistakes.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The funny/tragic thing is, it doesn't really matter how the scratches got there - squeegie, scanner, Paterson reels, kitchen floor whatever, make any excuse you want...doesn't matter. They're right there in plain sight, they're long and straight and parallel, one can easily imagine how the camera might be responsible, and they're inextricably associated with the new M6 which has been reported by several (un)lucky new owners to scratch film right out of the box, from the factory. One and one makes two. The unspoken, implied message is unmistakable....Think about it: Official Leica Brand Ambassador, reviews 2022 Leica M6, displays scratched negatives, and the nature of the scratches is entirely consistent with the hypothesis, "the new M6 scratches film". One might assume that a Leica Brand Ambasador would not make such apparently careless mistakes.

Heck if film is the problem, put in a memory chip and shoot digital.

 

[Huss]

Who can say what's up with that, could be simply an errant film squeegee.

But the secret of Leica M happiness is not to expect perfection, or for anyone to kiss your butt just because you paid a lot of money. With Leica service, you queue up with everyone else, and it's best not to sweat the small stuff.

He’s claiming it’s from figuring out ways of scanning. Right.
Here’s the thing about queuing up. I did, 6 weeks for my brand new camera to be repaired. And when I got it back, found out they had repaired it by replacing the defective pressure plate with another defective pressure plate.

I also found out that they never bothered confirming whether it no longer scratched film. Now back to the wait in the queue… this time I was promised by the service manager that they will take care of it immediately. So much for that queue. They also told me they had a bad batch of pressure plates which is why all this nonsense happened.

Now, remembering that Leica stated it was due to a bad batch of pressure plates, let’s revisit the Leica ambassador’s scratching M6. He got his about the same time I got mine, and the scratches are very similar. And yet, and yet against all evidence now claims his is fine and it was his process that was at fault.

Sure, right. uh huh.

Now back to my camera. They were about to send it back this week but forgot to fix the ISO dial, and also again did not check if they fixed the scratching! They again had just replaced the pressure plate - now it is on #3 for a brand new camera. And I need them to actually check it w film to make sure that pressure plate #3 is not from the same defective batch that #1 and #2 came from.

Frankly at this point I am numb to their incompetence.

 

[faberryman]

Here is Slack's statement on M6 film scratches from the comments following his review:

"I’m sure the stories about scratched films are true (but I’ve also seen similar criticisms of the MP). I don’t know how common they are though (how can one).
To be fair, I think that given a level playing field I might have gone for an MP as well, but having bought the M6 I do like it!"

 

[Pieter12]

Here is Slack's statement on M6 film scratches from the comments following his review:

"I’m sure the stories about scratched films are true (but I’ve also seen similar criticisms of the MP). I don’t know how common they are though (how can one).
To be fair, I think that given a level playing field I might have gone for an MP as well, but having bought the M6 I do like it!"

How can anyone like a $5000+ camera that scratches film? Especially a 35mm that doesn't offer much opportunity to crop out such scratches, they pretty much ruin the photos taken with it. Time-consuming and sometimes a challenge to clean up if scanned film is your thing. Maybe he just likes looking at it and fondling it.

 

[Huss]

Here is Slack's statement on M6 film scratches from the comments following his review:

"I’m sure the stories about scratched films are true …..I don’t know how common they are though (how can one).

Simple, on l-camera forum I asked everyone who bought one to report back. At last count we had 21 reports - 12 cameras were good, 9 were bad. I gave up at that point because it was obvious a very real issue, and a short while later Leica let me know about the bad batch.

Of note, in that survey Slack reported that his camera was good. And now I see that is not the case so the count at that point should have been 11 to 10.

of note #2 about how this was gamed. I contacted another very famous Dutch Leica blogger because he did a video review of the new M6 for his website. He stated to me that he saw the stripes (his term for the scratches) but did not think much of it. He then contributed to that survey and said his M6 was good too…

You should actually watch - briefly - his video review. He does not even know how to load the camera! It was just something to add to the collection and create content for his channel.

 

[faberryman]

Maybe he just likes looking at it and fondling it.

As I mentioned above, he has the galleries on his website sorted by the Leica lens he used to take the photographs, so you know where his head is at. He makes his living flogging Leica stuff.

 

[mshchem]

Brand Ambassador = Bullshit Artist.

 

[BradS]

Heck if film is the problem, put in a memory chip and shoot digital.

Yeah, right? I mean, how dumb/careless/clueless does one have to be to include negative scans of severely scratched negatives in an on-line review of the new Leica M6 film scratcher? I mean he could have used unscratched negatives from a 55mm f/1.8 Super Takumar mounted on a Pentax Spotmatic nobody would know the difference.

 

[Huss]

Furthermore, when Slack tries to downplay it by saying how would one know how many are affected - simple - Leica knows.
They told me it was due to a bad batch of pressure plates. How many pressure plates were in that batch? That is how many M6 scratchers are out there.
The only reason there is a mystery here is because Leica does not want to address it.

 

[4season]

I wasn't joking when I suggested a DIY fix. A more appropriate term for what I proposed is "lapping", which implies a greater degree of precision than simply scrubbing the pressure plate with a random piece of sandpaper.

Why this sort of basic QC issue still crops up in a proven design after so many years, and changes in company ownership, I couldn't say, but I've experienced these sorts of frustrations too, including sending gear in to Leica repeatedly and not having the issue resolved, as far back as the 1980s.

For better or worse, I think there's a tendency for people to gush over the products and play down flaws, and audiences who crave next-level experiences no matter what.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I have a Canon EOS 1n that has seen a sh*t ton of film, lots of it in sandy areas. At one point it started scratching film. I took a Dremel with a polishing wheel to the pressure plate and it fixed it. Nary a problem since. If anyone thinks that is a solution for a brand new $5000+ camera that is supposed to be the highest quality camera in the world, I don't know what to tell you. If I bought a used Leica and it was scratching the film I would totally get out my Dremel.

As an aside, does anyone miss the days when manufacturers got real photographers to shuck their products? You know, people that had a reputation to think about? I mean this whole influencer/ambassador thing these days is a joke, as is evidenced by the aforementioned ambassador.

 

[mshchem]

Nikon got a big boost back in the rangefinder days by supplying working photojournalists with lenses and incredible service, took a lot of business away from Leica

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

And void the warranty and in one swell foop!

Yep. I mean, thats not an issue with a used cameras but a new one with warranty? Not a good and sane idea.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yep. I mean, thats not an issue with a used cameras but a new one with warranty? Not a good and sane idea.

My parents did not raise stupid children.

 

[faberryman]

Can you imagine if South Park did an episode on this latest Leica kerfuffle?

 

[snusmumriken]

As an aside, does anyone miss the days when manufacturers got real photographers to shuck their products? You know, people that had a reputation to think about? I mean this whole influencer/ambassador thing these days is a joke, as is evidenced by the aforementioned ambassador.

As you mention it, I did think that the photos in Slack’s review made a poor case for using a $5,000 camera. An Olympus Trip 35 would probably have done as good a job (without scratching the film!).

Of course that lays me (and most contributors to this thread) open to a similar charge. I guess we buy a top-end camera so as not to feel limited by it, not because we expect our photos to be instantly better. The potential is there if we are up to it. At least a few of my keepers do make me happy with my (far more modest) investment. But I feel that an ambassador should be operating at a pretty high level. If their photos don’t impress me, I have little respect for their opinion of the camera.

 

[GLS]

$5000+ camera that is supposed to be the highest quality camera in the world

I think Linhof and Arca-Swiss might have a thing or two to say about that...

 

[Cubao]

I had the same problems with the pressure plate scratching the negative of my new MP in 2019. Leica has replaced the pressure plate and my MP works since then flawlessly.

Interestingly I was searching several times with the magnifier the entire surface of the pressure plate for the defect but I couldn’t find something