The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Photo Engineer, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. OP
    OP
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    Check out their pre-bleach. If there is no formalin or one of its derivatives, then it is not suitable for EK reversal films. It means that Fuji has changed their film formulation. But, if there is formalin present somewhere in any form, then Fuji films and EK films still need Formalin.

    PE
     
  2. B&Wpositive

    B&Wpositive Member

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    Looking at Freestyle's website at the Fuji C-41 chemistry, I see a bleach listed, but not a "pre-bleach".
     
  3. OP
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    Then there apparently is no formalin in the process.

    PE
     
  4. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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  5. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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    In addition... as Fuji states... if you want to use the older pre-bleach and a Formalin-based final rinse/stabilizer you can...
     
  6. OP
    OP
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    I repeat.... THE PREBLEACH CONTAINS A FORMALIN COMPOUNDED WITH SODIUM BISULFITE! It is released in the bleach and so what they say is true. No more formalin in the final step, but it IS IN THE PROCESS.

    The magenta coupler in Kodak films was the problem.

    PE
     
  7. lichtenstiger

    lichtenstiger Member

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    Over the last few years I have been processing c-41 and e-6 at home from time to time. Like many here, I've had problems with the tetanol c-41 stab (white flecks everywhere!). My e-6 home processing has been limited to the Arista e-6 rapid kit, which I understand has no stabilizer. After reading this thread, I plan on making my own stab per PE's instructions and incorporating it as a final wash for both processes...at least until i start using different chemical kits in the future. The real question i have is should i go back and do a "final" wash on the e-6 that i have already processed with the Arista rapid e-6 kit (no formalin)? Some of these slides will be 2 years old at this point.
     
  8. 1kgcoffee

    1kgcoffee Member

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    Photo Engineer,
    To properly preserve E6 with non-fuji chemicals (no formalin) after the final wash, how long would you soak in formalin? Would you dilute it from 37% formaldehyde (and 15% methanol)? Also, once the chemical reaction has taken place, can you wash again or should the slides be dried with the formalin on them as the last step.

    I'm thinking about making a final stabilizer bath of dilute formalin and photoflo for extended time, but not sure what concentration to use.
     
  9. OP
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    Use the formula given above and treat for up to 2 minutes at 100 F for E6 films.

    PE
     
  10. 1kgcoffee

    1kgcoffee Member

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    Heh...should have read your first post all the way.. thankyou!
     
  11. 1kgcoffee

    1kgcoffee Member

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    Lets say down the line I have some treasured slides that I want to preserve. Obviously best to store them in the fridge. How often should they be retreated with formalin to preserve them for my great grandchildren. Could we expect results like kodachrome where they look perfect 60 years later assuming the projector stay cools and minimal UV?

    Is there a downside chemically to storing them in the freezer?
     
  12. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    A household refrigerator or freezer aren't necessarily the best choice.
    A humidity and temperature controlled environment are the best choice.
    As for re-treating with formalin - a photo-archivist would be the sort of person to ask about that.
    The Vancouver Archives has a fascinating facility, and an excellent web-page on the subject: http://www.vancouverarchives.ca/201...-archives-photographic-cold-storage-facility/
     
  13. OP
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    If done properly, one treatment is enough, provided that there is no wash whatsoever after treatment at any time.

    PE
     
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  15. 1kgcoffee

    1kgcoffee Member

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    Thank you both!
     
  16. 1kgcoffee

    1kgcoffee Member

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    so I rewetted and restabilized another two 35mm rolls. One of Ektar and one of gold 200. Reason being there was a residue from initial stabilization left behind. I had reused this solution after two rolls. After the initial wetting (10 minutes) the water had a pinkish tinge. After the stabilization, fresh solution, it gained a pinkish tinge too. It did not get this colour after doing two rolls of velvia, so I'm guessing this is something specific to c41. This happened both yesterday and today.

    Is this more dye washing out of the film? Do I need to give it another 10 minutes under running water?

    -thanks in advance,
    1kgcoffee
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  17. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Ultimately the colors in all color films WILL fade there is nothing that can be done about it. If you have important images then they need to be converted to digital format. Even the CDs are not permanent as there has been reports of the degradation of the plastic recording media. As a final gotcha even this is not a complete guarantee as the existence of a reading device is still required.

    There is also the use of B&W tricolor separation negatives. But doing this is expensive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  18. OP
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    It appears as if the films were not washed enough in the first place. Rewash in water and then restabilize.

    PE
     
  19. btaylor

    btaylor Subscriber

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    I have a question about RA4 process (color print) stabilizer and print longevity. I use a 4 bath roller transport processor, 1 min per bath. Currently I run dev/blix/wash/stabilizer. I could run dev/blix/wash/wash.
    Is there a benefit to using RA4 stabilizer as the final bath? I realize the stab is designed for a wash-less process, but my paper is going through 4 baths before getting to the dryer regardless.
     
  20. OP
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    The stabilizer in RA4 contains a fungicide and bacteriocide. If you think that is useful to you then do it. For a washless process, it also protects on carryover of chemistry from the blix. Not good really.

    PE
     
  21. btaylor

    btaylor Subscriber

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    PE, thank you for the response. I ran a washless routine for a bit, but it was clear there was plenty of blix moving into the stabilizer, so I added the wash step. I think I will stick with my present scheme.
     
  22. pepo007

    pepo007 Member

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    Hello Photo Enginner, thank you for all help you providing here.. If I can I also have question: "Do I need to use FLO fir stabilizer if I'm using distilled water? Thx
     
  23. OP
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    Probably yes. It can depend on how much extraneous oil and salts you bring in (fingers and residual fix). Color film is much thicker than B&W and is sensitive to this.

    PE
     
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