The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

[Photo Engineer]

Check out their pre-bleach. If there is no formalin or one of its derivatives, then it is not suitable for EK reversal films. It means that Fuji has changed their film formulation. But, if there is formalin present somewhere in any form, then Fuji films and EK films still need Formalin.

PE

 

[B&Wpositive]

Check out their pre-bleach. If there is no formalin or one of its derivatives, then it is not suitable for EK reversal films. It means that Fuji has changed their film formulation. But, if there is formalin present somewhere in any form, then Fuji films and EK films still need Formalin.

PE

Looking at Freestyle's website at the Fuji C-41 chemistry, I see a bleach listed, but not a "pre-bleach".

 

[Photo Engineer]

Then there apparently is no formalin in the process.

PE

 

[nevintagefilms]

The fuji pre-bleach 2 and final rinse combination no longer has Formalin, but some alternative chemical for dye stability.

http://www.fujifilmeurope.be/fuji/fhweb2004.nsf/files/photo pdf files/$file/PreBleach2.pdf

Unfortunately, I cannot find exactly what that dye is, but their film stock formulation did not change... just the pre-bleach and final rinse. So, how good an alternative they found and what that alternative is remains a mystery.

 

[nevintagefilms]

The fuji pre-bleach 2 and final rinse combination no longer has Formalin, but some alternative chemical for dye stability.

http://www.fujifilmeurope.be/fuji/fhweb2004.nsf/files/photo pdf files/$file/PreBleach2.pdf

Unfortunately, I cannot find exactly what that dye is, but their film stock formulation did not change... just the pre-bleach and final rinse. So, how good an alternative they found and what that alternative is remains a mystery.

In addition... as Fuji states... if you want to use the older pre-bleach and a Formalin-based final rinse/stabilizer you can...

 

[Photo Engineer]

I repeat.... THE PREBLEACH CONTAINS A FORMALIN COMPOUNDED WITH SODIUM BISULFITE! It is released in the bleach and so what they say is true. No more formalin in the final step, but it IS IN THE PROCESS.

The magenta coupler in Kodak films was the problem.

PE

 

[lichtenstiger]

Over the last few years I have been processing c-41 and e-6 at home from time to time. Like many here, I've had problems with the tetanol c-41 stab (white flecks everywhere!). My e-6 home processing has been limited to the Arista e-6 rapid kit, which I understand has no stabilizer. After reading this thread, I plan on making my own stab per PE's instructions and incorporating it as a final wash for both processes...at least until i start using different chemical kits in the future. The real question i have is should i go back and do a "final" wash on the e-6 that i have already processed with the Arista rapid e-6 kit (no formalin)? Some of these slides will be 2 years old at this point.

 

[1kgcoffee]

Photo Engineer,
To properly preserve E6 with non-fuji chemicals (no formalin) after the final wash, how long would you soak in formalin? Would you dilute it from 37% formaldehyde (and 15% methanol)? Also, once the chemical reaction has taken place, can you wash again or should the slides be dried with the formalin on them as the last step.

I'm thinking about making a final stabilizer bath of dilute formalin and photoflo for extended time, but not sure what concentration to use.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Use the formula given above and treat for up to 2 minutes at 100 F for E6 films.

PE

 

[1kgcoffee]

Heh...should have read your first post all the way.. thankyou!

 

[1kgcoffee]

Lets say down the line I have some treasured slides that I want to preserve. Obviously best to store them in the fridge. How often should they be retreated with formalin to preserve them for my great grandchildren. Could we expect results like kodachrome where they look perfect 60 years later assuming the projector stay cools and minimal UV?

Is there a downside chemically to storing them in the freezer?

 

[MattKing]

A household refrigerator or freezer aren't necessarily the best choice.
A humidity and temperature controlled environment are the best choice.
As for re-treating with formalin - a photo-archivist would be the sort of person to ask about that.
The Vancouver Archives has a fascinating facility, and an excellent web-page on the subject: http://www.vancouverarchives.ca/201...-archives-photographic-cold-storage-facility/

 

[Photo Engineer]

Lets say down the line I have some treasured slides that I want to preserve. Obviously best to store them in the fridge. How often should they be retreated with formalin to preserve them for my great grandchildren. Could we expect results like kodachrome where they look perfect 60 years later assuming the projector stay cools and minimal UV?

Is there a downside chemically to storing them in the freezer?

If done properly, one treatment is enough, provided that there is no wash whatsoever after treatment at any time.

PE

 

[1kgcoffee]

Thank you both!

 

[1kgcoffee]

so I rewetted and restabilized another two 35mm rolls. One of Ektar and one of gold 200. Reason being there was a residue from initial stabilization left behind. I had reused this solution after two rolls. After the initial wetting (10 minutes) the water had a pinkish tinge. After the stabilization, fresh solution, it gained a pinkish tinge too. It did not get this colour after doing two rolls of velvia, so I'm guessing this is something specific to c41. This happened both yesterday and today.

Is this more dye washing out of the film? Do I need to give it another 10 minutes under running water?

-thanks in advance,
1kgcoffee

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Ultimately the colors in all color films WILL fade there is nothing that can be done about it. If you have important images then they need to be converted to digital format. Even the CDs are not permanent as there has been reports of the degradation of the plastic recording media. As a final gotcha even this is not a complete guarantee as the existence of a reading device is still required.

There is also the use of B&W tricolor separation negatives. But doing this is expensive.

 

[Photo Engineer]

so I rewetted and restabilized another two 35mm rolls. One of Ektar and one of gold 200. Reason being there was a residue from initial stabilization left behind. I had reused this solution after two rolls. After the initial wetting (10 minutes) the water had a pinkish tinge. After the stabilization, fresh solution, it gained a pinkish tinge too. It did not get this colour after doing two rolls of velvia, so I'm guessing this is something specific to c41. This happened both yesterday and today.

Is this more dye washing out of the film? Do I need to give it another 10 minutes under running water?

-thanks in advance,
1kgcoffee

It appears as if the films were not washed enough in the first place. Rewash in water and then restabilize.

PE

 

[btaylor]

I have a question about RA4 process (color print) stabilizer and print longevity. I use a 4 bath roller transport processor, 1 min per bath. Currently I run dev/blix/wash/stabilizer. I could run dev/blix/wash/wash.
Is there a benefit to using RA4 stabilizer as the final bath? I realize the stab is designed for a wash-less process, but my paper is going through 4 baths before getting to the dryer regardless.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The stabilizer in RA4 contains a fungicide and bacteriocide. If you think that is useful to you then do it. For a washless process, it also protects on carryover of chemistry from the blix. Not good really.

PE

 

[btaylor]

PE, thank you for the response. I ran a washless routine for a bit, but it was clear there was plenty of blix moving into the stabilizer, so I added the wash step. I think I will stick with my present scheme.

 

[pepo007]

Formalin is the active ingredient here. Photo Flo just prevents water spots.

PE

Hello Photo Enginner, thank you for all help you providing here.. If I can I also have question: "Do I need to use FLO fir stabilizer if I'm using distilled water? Thx

 

[Photo Engineer]

Probably yes. It can depend on how much extraneous oil and salts you bring in (fingers and residual fix). Color film is much thicker than B&W and is sensitive to this.

PE

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Perhaps this has been asked before and answered too. Apologies if that's the case. Just wanted to check if C41 stabiliser is good for b&w films as the final rinse before drying? There's no good reason to do this versus Fotoflo, I know, but curiousity bug bit me.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Do not use a color stabilizer with B&W films.

PE

 

[MattKing]

Do not use a color stabilizer with B&W films.

PE

Save and except the chromogenic, C41 process B&W films?