The Death of Photojournalism, in full color. Me Backpedalling Big Time.

[Vaughn]

We often get Washington State smoke up here, too. A few years ago, it was brutal!

The area inbetween my two sisters got hammered.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The area inbetween my two sisters got hammered.

Sorry about that!

 

[wyofilm]

Thank you, and all rural firefighters, for your service!

You might thank them in person, who knows. We have several local engines/crews out of county (jargon for deployed on national fires). I don't know where they are but they might be in California.

 

[wiltw]

When I was working there (USFS) I got dropped off with a couple others by a chopper doing a one-rail, "Out you go!" landing on a several acre lightning strike in the middle of nowhere. The smoke got bad so that the chopper could not bring out water (drinking or otherwise) and or back-up for a long while. Headwaters for a few rivers, this is up or down country...and that is true all down the coastal mountains.

Once again, Thank You, for your service. I have the utmost respect for you all. I had a fraternity brother from college, who, a few years after graduation, died while aerial firefighting in northern Mendocino Co.

 

[Mick Fagan]

We know things are bad when the USA officially requests for our fire fighters to head there to help. We've done it before and it will probably happen this time as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...-firefighting-support-from-australia/12585806

Mick.

 

[Vaughn]

It was not my main job, so I did not do much of it --the last couple years I spent more time up at the lookout during lightning activity.

I did do some fun stuff -- our acting district ranger was an ex-smokejumper, so when 4 jumped into the wilderness for a burning tree, he sent me in with a mule behind me to pick them up afterwards...rather than have them hike out with 100 lb packs. Or riding out on the mountain tops in the back a 4WD pickup with music blaring on the ext. speakers in the middle of the night to get to a lone tree on fire, cut the line and then hunker down for the night. Kinda of cool...

 

[pentaxuser]

Not to mention that almost 60% of CA forest land is under federal ownership. US Forest Service is greatly underfunded. The number of USFS fire fighters and fire stations has dropped tremendously.

Looks like politics again I'll let you off this this time Vaughn as in this thread it appears to be your first offence

pentaxuser

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

We know things are bad when the USA officially requests for our fire fighters to head there to help. We've done it before and it will probably happen this time as well.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...-firefighting-support-from-australia/12585806

Mick.

Thanks for your help.

 

[BradS]

Is it true that they won't let the power companies clear the underbrush out from under the power lines there?

this is false.

 

[Vaughn]

Looks like politics again I'll let you off this this time Vaughn as in this thread it appears to be your first offence

pentaxuser

Just the facts, sir! I left the Forest Service in 1991 -- funds for recreation were drying up (including trail work), I was being trained up as a crew boss (leading 20 firefighters into the fire) and things were not looking good. Other reasons too, but when the opportunity to run a university darkroom appeared, I jumped ship.

I went backpacking out of my old station a couple summers ago with one of my boys. The fire station on the way up were closed down, no road work for awhile, little to no work done on the trails in many years. Actually the wilderness is a lot more wild now.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Just the facts, sir! I left the Forest Service in 1991 -- funds for recreation were drying up (including trail work), I was being trained up as a crew boss (leading 20 firefighters into the fire) and things were not looking good. Other reasons too, but when the opportunity to run a university darkroom appeared, I jumped ship.

I went backpacking out of my old station a couple summers ago with one of my boys. The fire station on the way up were closed down, no road work for awhile, little to no work done on the trails in many years. Actually the wilderness is a lot more wild now.

That sounds political. Be careful.

 

[wyofilm]

Vaughn is right about reduced funding for recreation in our National Forests. Mainly this is because of fire fighting and fire mitigating costs continue to rise. More than half of the USFS budget goes to forest fires. When Vaughn left the USFS fire fighting accounted for about 25% of the budget. There are many reasons for this, but for the sake of forum harmony, I will swing wide of political hot topics, and just encourage those that are interested to delve into the reasons. They are complex and cut across the full political spectrum.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The should bring back Smokey Bear.
https://smokeybear.com/en/smokeys-history?decade=1940

 

[Vaughn]

Yeah!

And for the reason of full disclosure -- yes, I have been Smokey the Bear. I was hoping at 6'4" the dang thing would not fit and I would have a valid excuse to back out.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yeah,Man.

 

[guangong]

Global warming? My Korean hawthorn tree’s fruit failed to ripen this year because of insufficient degree days. We face the same fire hazard in New Jersey. Absolutely no forest management of state lands. The side of the road to my house is littered with felled pine trees. Highly inflammable, one flicked.but from highway and whole forest could go. But NJ run by same bunch as California.

 

[Vaughn]

Are 60% of the forest land of NJ managed by the Federal Gov't, too?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Are 60% of the forest land of NJ managed by the Federal Gov't, too?

Very little. Only a small strip is under forest land control (see green area). There are some military bases. (blue area) But 99% is under NJ state control. Most Federal lands are out west and in Alaska..
https://www.worldofmaps.net/typo3temp/images/map-federal-lands-indian-reservations-new-jersey.png

 

[Vaughn]

I know that, Alan, having worked for the USFS for 12 years in California...it was a bit satirical. I visited my old stomping grounds (Mendocino National Forest) with one of my boys in 2018. The small, one-engine stations were no longer staffed. Road work, which includes brushing and fuel removal along roadsides as firebreaks and safe avenues of travel, had not been done in years. Plantations of conifers were not thinned. As a large part of the August Complex, the largest fire in CA recorded history, this area is now toast...840,000 acres, 30% contained.

Federal (and State) policy and budgeting has just as much affect on our present fires as do global warming, drought and insect kills.

 

[BradS]

I know that, Alan, having worked for the USFS for 12 years in California...it was a bit satirical. I visited my old stomping grounds (Mendocino National Forest) with one of my boys in 2018. The small, one-engine stations were no longer staffed. Road work, which includes brushing and fuel removal along roadsides as firebreaks and safe avenues of travel, had not been done in years. Plantations of conifers were not thinned. As a large part of the August Complex, the largest fire in CA recorded history, this area is now toast...840,000 acres, 30% contained.

Federal (and State) policy and budgeting has just as much affect on our present fires as do global warming, drought and insect kills.

I think you dropped a zero there... the August complex fire is 833,000 acres (!) and 30% contained. https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/6983/
and yeah, most (all?) of it is on the national forest...federal land...supposed to be maintained by the Federal government.
So there's some irony in there there somewhere...don't' you think?

 

[Vaughn]

Already added it back on...it was officially 832,891 acres as of 7:55 am today PDT...I rounded up since it is probably past that by now. I was holding out some hope for some unburnt areas along the 150 miles of trails I use to maintain...but nope, the fire's burning all the way west to the Middle Fork Eel and onwards.

CalFire and the USFS work close together. While the August Complex may be primarily a Federal fire, it is burning onto and threatening state and private forest and range lands, communities, and ranches/homes.

 

[BradS]

Just for reference, 833,000 acres is roughly 1300 square miles...big enough to have consumed every bit of land in the sate of Delaware (1033 sq. miles) or nearly big enough to have burned all of the the land in the state of Rhode Island (1948 sq. miles)...and that's just one fire.

 

[Vaughn]

And growing...

Big hit on cannibis production this year...

 

[wyofilm]

Let's put this years fire season in perspective. According to the USDA Forest Service in 1930 approximately 50 million acres burned in wildfires, while this year it will be around 10 million acres. In no way am I trying to ignore the devastation and losses felt by those on the west coast. Nor am I discounting those firefighters working hard to save life and property. What makes modern fires so devastating is just how many people live in the wild land/urban interface. People like to live in the woods. What might have once been hunting or line shacks are now multimillion dollar homes in fairly dense neighborhoods.

Every year (except this covid-19 year) my fire department in Sublette County (Wyoming) trains with BLM and Forest service firefighters to better integrate on initial attacks and fire fighting strategies. We always hold these trainings in important communities that typify the wild land/urban interface. Every year we cover the same problems: narrow roads!, limited water sources, poor home owner fire mitigation, and short-sighted home owners associations that restrict tree cutting close to homes. It is amazing how much land management around the home and neighborhoods can protect homes. My guess is that insurance companies will be the drivers to address the problems I listed.

A second factor is historical fire management practices by the Forest Service and short sighted viewpoints by some environmental groups (my personal opinion). Managed grazing, logging, and fires (letting more acres burn) can all be helpful devices to reducing under story growth and deadfall accumulation, as well as, contribute to road maintenance. I don't know about what the forests are like where you live, but most near me are dead fall messes with unnaturally close tree spacings (or so I'm told by range management experts). Grazing can be helpful, too. I've seen running fires stop dead at a forest grassy areas because it had been recently grazed by cattle. Grazing should not be eliminated but managed better. Right now out west we have a three way firing squads of ranchers, environmental groups, and federal land managers, all to the detriment of what each group wants to see - healthy rangelands and forests.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The Aborigines have been in Australia for 65,000 years and are the oldest continuous civilization [the Neanderthal started cave paintings 14,000 years ago.]. The Aborigines had been doing controlled burns over 40,000 years ago. Thus Australia did not have these large burns over the 65,000 year period until only very recently with the European take over. Controlled burns are small slow burning fires that do not get very hot. The mega fires burn very hot and sterilize the soil for decades. Obviously the Aborigines were doing something right. Read about controlled burns and other things the Aborigines did in Dark Emu: Black Seeds: Agriculture or Accident? by Bruce Pascoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Emu_(book)