The comeback?

[moose10101]

digital is not that inexpensive shot for shot if you consider the entire expenses: camera, computer, software and printing; easily$3/shot and constantly updating it all.

$3 per shot? Do you mean "per exposure" or "per print"?

You're exaggerating all of the expenses:

• Most people who can afford to be a photographer already have a computer that they use for other things. Worst case, they'd have to add a bigger disk drive and backup drive (total < $200)
  
• Editing software is inexpensive.
• Camera and lenses are much less expensive (50-80% less), adjusted for inflation, than film gear was.
• There's absolutely no need to "constantly update it all"; that's just another myth.
• Printer, ink, and paper are no more expensive than enlarger, chemicals, and paper.

 

[faberryman]

Why the focus on film vs. digital cost? It is nothing but a rationalization of your choice. You can futz the numbers either way. "I am a [film][digital] photographer because it's cheaper." What does it say about your photography? A lot, actually.

 

[removed account4]

doesn't it depend on what kind of camera, lens, computer, printer, inks and papers you use?
its ez to make generalizations that things are expensive or inexpensive
a lot of camera users don't make any prints they just look at a screen,
that's the cheepest way to do it all ... cause a screen can be a $50 phone

 

[jtk]

I shoot 35mm film because I like the way ME Super+ handles and I like the fact that two of them, near mint, recently cost $40 each. The viewfinder is brilliant and SMALL (far smaller than the student Pentax or Leica M)...far better than DSLR's I've seen. I like the tech (especially the metal shutter) of this now antiquated gizmo. I could make similar arguments for Olympus except that I've known a few that failed.

If I could afford Leica's recent digital Ms I'd own a few, but my Samsung 22mp mirrorless serves amazingly except in blasting light..and it's bulky compared to the MEs. Unfortunately for me, Samsung is evidently bailing out of the camera biz. I'm about $1500 into orphan body and lenses.

The little Pentaxes are substantial enough to use in a bar fight or dark alley, but not nearly as intimidating as my Canon F1s..which weighed a lot more.

Top tier DSLRs have been ridiculously large, up until the newest mirrorless.

 

[wyofilm]

I'm about $1500 into orphan body and lenses

Are there adapters to/from the Samsung mounting system?

 

[jtk]

Are there adapters to/from the Samsung mounting system?

I've failed to find adapters.

I suspect something new and important is in the wings for inkjet, but I've yet to see a serious challenger to Nikon (which with Amazon killed Minolta) for scanning. Pretend-scanning (dslr on copy stand) doesn't come close. I'll probably shoot film until that Nikon falters.

 

[MattKing]

This is exactly what popped into my mind as well. No complaints here. Not familiar with Dinah Washington.

As a matter of coincidence, my wife had a movie (the Holiday) on the television today which has a lot of music in the soundtrack. As the credits rolled by, I noticed a listing for musical soloists:
Trumpet: Herb Alpert
after a few others,
Keyboards: Hans Zimmer
Herb Alpert had/has a real presence!
And as for Dinah Washington, this Grammy award winning song seems to be appropriate for this thread:
What A Difference A Day Makes:

 

[scheimfluger_77]

Oooo, wonderful voice.

 

[removed account4]

If I could afford Leica's recent digital Ms I'd own a few, but my Samsung 22mp mirrorless serves amazingly except in blasting light..and it's bulky compared to the MEs. Unfortunately for me, Samsung is evidently bailing out of the camera biz. I'm about $1500 into orphan body and lenses.

not much of a "poster child for the digital equipment isn't super expensive or here to stay" ( leica being super expensive, samsung being orphaned ) ...
im guessing if you wanted to use your nice samsung lenses on other bodies you could probably have a custom adapter machined at some place like skgrimes or zacks
( but as you know custom means $$$ which will add to your $$ in the hole ...

 

[jtk]

My Samsung will probably serve a long time, beating most of the flapping mirror digitals in visual terms. If it fails I'll probably pick up another from KEH. But it's plastic so may last forever. I'm a photographer, not a cost account. If I was a cost accountant I'd still be shooting Nikon Ftn, sneering at Pentax like true Nikon shooters have always done.

 

[removed account4]

My Samsung will probably serve a long time, beating most of the flapping mirror digitals in visual terms. If it fails I'll probably pick up another from KEH. But it's plastic so may last forever. I'm a photographer, not a cost account. If I was a cost accountant I'd still be shooting Nikon Ftn, sneering at Pentax like true Nikon shooters have always done.

OOPS!
sorry i was under the impression you had posted the cost information in this thread
because others were saying either how expensive or inexpensive digital was
and seeing you love digital so much it seemed strange that you were
explaiing how expensive the leica was and how your samsung has got
you "in 1500$ with orphaned cameras and lenses"
never had a problem with flapping mirrors with anything but a graflex, but i sitll
handhold it at 1/15S without issue...

 

[Film-Niko]

go to the stores in my neighborhood and you'll see what's dead or laughed out the store if you ask for film!

When I go to my stores the staff is very glad to sell film to me. Because their digital camera sales have collapsed in the last years. They stock all film in 135 and 120. Professional film is cold stored in a refrigerator. Sheet film can be odererd by them.
And they see more photographers coming back to film, and new, young photographers beginning with film. They have increased their film supply in the last years.
My local lab made about 10% of its busines with film five years ago. Now film is about 45% of their business.

 

[Film-Niko]

Let's put things back into proper perspective by examining the bar chart here:
https://www.spin.com/2014/05/did-vinyl-really-die-in-the-90s-death-resurgence-sales/

Please don't forget that this is only up to 2014. Since then in several major markets vinyl sales have increased by another 60-80%.

 

[Film-Niko]

There's at least one Canadian and one German company making new presses. That's the best evidence that vinyl is "back".

Yes, there are indeed new manufacturers for vinyl pressing machines. You can see some of the completely new designed and built machines in this video:
https://mediathek.rbb-online.de/tv/...en/Video?bcastId=16269336&documentId=53874354

They are installed in a new vinyl factory in Berlin. In this video report you can also see Fotoimpex and Adox. The CEO explains in his statement that Fotoimpex has increasing demand in the double digit range, and that one reason for the new Adox factory is also increasing demand for Adox products.

 

[removed account4]

When I go to my stores the staff is very glad to sell film to me. Because their digital camera sales have collapsed in the last years. They stock all film in 135 and 120. Professional film is cold stored in a refrigerator. Sheet film can be odererd by them.
And they see more photographers coming back to film, and new, young photographers beginning with film. They have increased their film supply in the last years.
My local lab made about 10% of its busines with film five years ago. Now film is about 45% of their business.

i think all these data points, as well as your claiming vinyl has made a come back all depends on where you live.
i was just talking to someone who was vinyl record shopping yesterday whose friend was going to have to spend $27 on a new album.
this wasn't a mom and pop store where they have to charge excessive prices to pay rent, but a shop with many many locations. ( >> cheap )
can't say my local mini lab ( the only one in 20-30 mile radius ) has seen a massive increase of 45% ...
or that the local large chain camera retailer ( the only camera shop in the state it seems ) has had a fall off or collapse of digital camera sales.
their store was slammed yesterday with people buying digital gear, not analog stuff ... last time i bought analog stuff there it was a non fuctioning lens
purchased and later RETURNED.

its ez to make claims across the board but reality is that as much as there seems to be an increase ( a little ) of film and vinyl
its really not much. someone with a instax camera i talked to yesterday said "costs too much" which can be said across the board
everything does ... even DEKTOL print developer has increased by more than 1/3 in only a few years at both mail order nYc or local
chain pro shops .. tmax and tri x sheet film now costs $230 / 100 sheets at b+h, when just a few years ago they were a fraction of that ( last time i bought
it .. it was $65/100 sheets DELIVERED .. and local rich town-scalper-shop were attemping to sell me THE same film, but 5 years expired, box COVERED WITH DUST for $100 ... ya,
now it sounds like a bargain ! ) .. at least adox and ilford films aren't that expensive, but they aren't "cheap" by any stretch of the imagination ...
and while i think it is fantastic the new chrome film is back and will be hitting the shelves for eager people to buy and use and love the beauty of positive film
the infrastructure for a lot of people to get this stuff processed locally is gone, everything is mail order and nothing is cheap ...
and before you say " processing at home is cheap as dirt" not everyone wants to deal with processing at home because
the white elephant in THAT room is chemical disposal
and " im only processing a few rolls here and there" still doesn't justify dumping stuff down the drain ...
no matter how you slice it, it really isn't all peanuts or 2 scoops of raisins ..

dont' get me wrong, i am extremely excited that things are bouncing back a little but it isn't like swarms of people have converted to vinyl or film &c

YMMV

 

[Ste_S]

The latest round of top tier mirrorless camera introductions is only the beginning. $5000 is the price of entry if a pro or "serious amateur" wants the best (like those that once bought Hasselblad)...and that old kit was obviously inferior image-wise to recent 5d2 which was grotesquely larger than the new and superior mirrorless. That's only down-valuation of around $20k over a decade, which is a lot less than the valuation of an old Toyota Prius over that time frame, and Prius isn't even cost efficient, fun, or ego-boosting (tho is as good fuel-wise as the latest).

Which is all to say the ever-increasing cost of digital camera ownership is mostly a concern to people on the margins of financial comfort (like me, sometimes). And I've just convinced myself that HP5, unlike HP4, is a marriage from hell with 1+100 stand processed Rodinal.

The struggles Cinestill appears to suffer may portend something more worrisome about other film ideas.

It's only the gear heads that pay that kind of money for digital. I recently bought a Nikon FE and an Olympus OM-D E-M5 and cost was roughly the same - in fact digital bodies that are 'good enough' are decreasing in price at roughly the same rate equivalent film bodies are increasing in price.

Film is increasingly becoming a luxury for me as someone else who is on the margins of financial comfort. I can't justify the £200+ a month on film/dev/scan when I can be shooting digital for free.

 

[4season]

Please don't forget that this is only up to 2014. Since then in several major markets vinyl sales have increased by another 60-80%.

Impressive percentage gains to be sure, but remember that's based on very low numbers compared to vinyl's peak years circa 1979-80. Nevertheless, I think vinyl's future is looking brighter than it has in a very long time.

As for film, I suspect those who say that scaling down film production is much trickier (than LP manufacturing) are likely correct. Film Ferrania got lucky in acquiring what amounts to a small-scale manufacturing plant, but even so it sounds like it's been a herculean task to bring it back online - this is covered in some detail both on FF's web site as well as David Sax's book.

 

[faberryman]

Please don't forget that this is only up to 2014. Since then in several major markets vinyl sales have increased by another 60-80%.

Sales have been up, but not 60-80%.

 

[pbromaghin]

Increase from 9.2M units in 2014 to 14.3M units in 2017 is a 55% increase. Hardly any increase into 2018 would be needed to make the 60-80% range. However, the rate of increase appears to be slowing.

 

[REAndy]

Let't not forget Fountain Pens. They too are making a huge comeback.

 

[4season]

Let't not forget Fountain Pens. They too are making a huge comeback.

Yes, if I buy one, that will represent a whopping year-on-year increase

 

[REAndy]

Yes, if I buy one, that will represent a whopping year-on-year increase

I think you should do some research. Your purchase of one would go entirely unnoticed. In the past 10 years or so this has really boomed. Fountain pens are a billion dollar industry and gaining every year. Biro pen sales are flat (ball-point). Like photographers to film, and audiophiles to vinyl records, people are rediscovering fountain pens, which basically 'died' in the 1950s. A Montblanc Meisterstuck fountain pen and a pad of Rhodia paper might be the smoothest writing experience you've ever had.

 

[faberryman]

A Montblanc Meisterstuck fountain pen and a pad or Rhodia paper might be the smoothest writing experience you've ever had.

The least expensive Montblanc Meisterstuck fountain pen is $530; the most expensive is $10,300. One would hope for a smooth writing experience.

 

[4season]

A Montblanc Meisterstuck fountain pen and a pad or Rhodia paper might be the smoothest writing experience you've ever had.

I stand by my statement: If I buy a fountain pen, it'll represent a massive increase over what I've got now!

I owned a Mont Blanc Meisterstück 149 for a number of years, even had the pretty black leather case for it, but it was all wasted on me, so I sold it.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

any second now but, don't hold your breath.