The comeback?

[moose10101]

Vinyl records have been making a comeback for a at least dozen years. It is not a new phenomenon. With the rise first in downloads and now in streaming, with the emphasis on the single, and the resulting decline in CD sales, vinyl now accounts for something like 10% of album sales. It is a healthy niche market. Lots of people have a few albums, just like lots of people shoot a few rolls of film.

Vinyl has made a legitimate comeback, with new pressing facilities coming on line.

 

[Cropline]

Are fountain pens, typewriters and vinyl records making a comeback?

Don't forget the horses. Some say they left, but they're still out there. Sometimes you'll even find them attached to a buggy.

 

[removed account4]

vinyl ... really ?
they cost about 15x what they cost in 1981
instead of $1.99 for an LP theyare bertween 27-30$ sometimes for a 4song EP
not sure that is a comeback
maybe when kodachrome is made in china and
released in the usa for $300'roll we can say film has made a comeback too

 

[Cholentpot]

I was being facetious in my comment about records, leaky pens and mechanical word processors. You can all stop updating me.

Also I can get pristine LPs for free just about anywhere, but they're all Herb Alpert.

 

[Arthurwg]

Do you have any evidence for that?

Digital gear is relatively inexpensive shot for shot. If you bought the latest £2k camera every couple of years and traded in your old model, it would still be less expensive than shooting film.

I just don't see that for anyone committed to photography beyond the snapshot. High quality digital cameras and lenses cost a fortune, much more than a top of the line used Hasselblad or Leica M6. I have an excellent darkroom that cost much less to buy and use than my partner's digital stuff. She has an excellent computer, 8 external hard rives and an expensive monitor. She still shoots film, but scans everything on an Imacon, not an inexpensive proposition. And all this before the first print is made.

 

[marcofimages]

Guys, thank you all for the contributions to the topic. I did not anticipate to trigger this lively discussion. It was pretty much the information I was looking for (even if there were some other similar threads) and it;s been great fun reading it. I think the thread started drifting but not too much .

 

[MattKing]

I was being facetious in my comment about records, leaky pens and mechanical word processors. You can all stop updating me.

Also I can get pristine LPs for free just about anywhere, but they're all Herb Alpert.

Is that necessarily bad?

My parents had this album - and I was a teenager! It is actually quite good.
As Herb Alpert was the "A" in A&M Records, it certainly isn't bad to be associated with him.
FWIW, my parents had excellent tastes in Jazz, and the records (and CDs) that I have from them are generally really good.
Anyone for a little Dinah Washington?

 

[Ste_S]

I have quickly lost the expectation that a digital camera will last more than five years. That was my point. Cameras are to be replaced very frequently which will hurt the photographic world. Double and triple down with photography specific items such as large storage devices and cards, expensive and ephemeral printers, and software subscriptions (the new normal), then I believe many will walk away from what has become an expensive hobby.

I guess photographers will buy a Nikon z7 when their D800 dies in the next year or two (or a bit longer). When I was in high school photography wasn't too expensive for me because I used an at that time 20 year old camera and lens (the sensor was replaced frequently!). I don't think that there are too many 20 year Nikon D1 cameras handed down today to novice photographers.

There was a useful used market when photographers back in the day when photographers with means upgraded to the latest and greatest. That is a much diminished world for digital cameras. The disposability of cameras is what is new. My guess is that camera companies don't feel warm fuzzies when thinking about the future market of stand alone cameras.

Anecdotally, I've not experienced that at all. I buy all my digital stuff second hand, and have quickly learned that older tech is perfectly fine for my needs - stills printed at A4/A3. Regularly purchase and use digital cameras >5 years old and have had zero issues other than having to clean sensors every now and again.

 

[removed account4]

I have quickly lost the expectation that a digital camera will last more than five years.

weird
i regularly use a digital camera that is about IDK 12 years old ( and sell work made from it )
and one that is even older, and my phone camera is IDK 5 years old too.
my scanner is 13 years old or more ..
whenever people talk about how all of this stuff needs to be updated regularly
i wonder what kind of photography they are doing and why everything needs to be upgraded so often.
my scanner is used pretty much 5 or 6 times a week and phone about the same and digital camera
not as regularly but often enough ... ( and again $$ comes out of it, they aren't instagram 72dpi images )
im sorry to ask this but do folks that upgrade their digital gear so often
upgrade their washer and dryer and stove and dishwasher and car and bicycle and film cameras as often ?
when i was a kid growing up i knew of people who got new "major appliances" every other year
LOL my refrigerator, stove dishwasher 20 years old and washer and dryer maybe 25 or 30 my car is almost 20 and one bike is 50-60 and the other is IDK 40
my film cameras are old too.. ( some are 130years old )

 

[scheimfluger_77]

Is that necessarily bad?

My parents had this album - and I was a teenager! It is actually quite good.
As Herb Alpert was the "A" in A&M Records, it certainly isn't bad to be associated with him.
FWIW, my parents had excellent tastes in Jazz, and the records (and CDs) that I have from them are generally really good.
Anyone for a little Dinah Washington?

This is exactly what popped into my mind as well. No complaints here. Not familiar with Dinah Washington.

 

[Ste_S]

weird
i regularly use a digital camera that is about IDK 12 years old ( and sell work made from it )
and one that is even older, and my phone camera is IDK 5 years old too.
my scanner is 13 years old or more ..
whenever people talk about how all of this stuff needs to be updated regularly
i wonder what kind of photography they are doing and why everything needs to be upgraded so often.
my scanner is used pretty much 5 or 6 times a week and phone about the same and digital camera
not as regularly but often enough ... ( and again $$ comes out of it, they aren't instagram 72dpi images )
im sorry to ask this but do folks that upgrade their digital gear so often
upgrade their washer and dryer and stove and dishwasher and car and bicycle and film cameras as often ?
when i was a kid growing up i knew of people who got new "major appliances" every other year
LOL my refrigerator, stove dishwasher 20 years old and washer and dryer maybe 25 or 30 my car is almost 20 and one bike is 50-60 and the other is IDK 40
my film cameras are old too.. ( some are 130years old )

One of my prints that I took to a Royal Photographic Society advisory day was from a 12MP m4/3 camera and they had zero issues with it technically.

I don't think it's got anything to do with Photography, it's just gear heads wanting the latest stuff.
For stills, digital tech matured a long time ago for the majority of us. Expect the gear heads to be obsessing over video specs as that seems to be the main driver in digital cameras now.

 

[Cholentpot]

Is that necessarily bad?

My parents had this album - and I was a teenager! It is actually quite good.
As Herb Alpert was the "A" in A&M Records, it certainly isn't bad to be associated with him.
FWIW, my parents had excellent tastes in Jazz, and the records (and CDs) that I have from them are generally really good.
Anyone for a little Dinah Washington?

You'll find every album except for this one. For some reason people hang on to this one, I can't for any reason understand why...

 

[removed account4]

One of my prints that I took to a Royal Photographic Society advisory day was from a 12MP m4/3 camera and they had zero issues with it technically.

I don't think it's got anything to do with Photography, it's just gear heads wanting the latest stuff.
For stills, digital tech matured a long time ago for the majority of us. Expect the gear heads to be obsessing over video specs as that seems to be the main driver in digital cameras now.

thanks
yeah i had a feeling it was the personal need to upgrade because its fun to use something new ..
and congrats about the RPS !
john

 

[jtk]

Recent top end digital projectors work remarkably well in moderate light and are vastly better than slide projectors ever were in every respect but $$$. They're capable of depicting full frame digital in large mural size, which elevates the most recent hand held digital cameras above largest format in startling new ways (think hand held 8x10). All for about the price of a pair of Land Rovers.

 

[Agulliver]

vinyl ... really ?
they cost about 15x what they cost in 1981
instead of $1.99 for an LP theyare bertween 27-30$ sometimes for a 4song EP
not sure that is a comeback
maybe when kodachrome is made in china and
released in the usa for $300'roll we can say film has made a comeback too

I don't know where you were buying your LPs in 1981.I sure don't know where the hell you're buying them today. But those prices do not add up.


Let's look at 1985, because I remember it very well. A chart LP from a chain store in the UK typically cost £5.99, a little more from a specialist record shop if you bought it there or wanted to special order something less popular.

NOW we need to adjust for inflation. Which you conveniently forgot to do. That £5.99 is is £18.34 today.

And I don't know where the hell you're buying your $30 records but I can walk into a brick and mortar shop and buy both current and re-released albums on vinyl for £17-20. Sometimes cheaper online, depending on postage.

Today I can go to Sainsburys or Tesco (two biggest supermarket chains in the UK) and pick up a brand new copy of Sgt Pepper alongside my potatoes.

One thing I do not understand about some of the digital enthusiasts is their insistence that we film users should not have the privilege of enjoying film. I use both digital and film but I have never once heard a film-only user say that people shouldn't be "allowed" to shoot digital if they so wish. I don't see film-only people insulting the digital users. Always the other way around.

It was the same in the audio world in throughout the 90s....people into CD constantly deriding us analogue users, telling us to ditch our turntables and incinerate our records. What harm were we doing, even if vinyl had died? Though, in this instance....we certainly have the last laugh.

Photography should be a big tent, in my view, encompassing all methods including phones, digital cameras, film cameras, instant cameras, pinhole cameras and so on. Sheesh...we're surely just all trying in our own ways to make satisfying images that last a while, and which other people can view? Why rain on someone's parade because they choose or prefer a different method to you?

As for longevity, I retired my Nikon D50 after 12 years of service.....it does still work but I doubt it will last the century my Brownie has thus far achieved.

 

[faberryman]

I don't see film-only people insulting the digital users. Always the other way around.

You're kidding? It is a favorite sport around APUG, now Photrio.

 

[removed account4]

I don't know where you were buying your LPs in 1981.I sure don't know where the hell you're buying them today. But those prices do not add up.

IDK my local record store? they sold everything from bootlegs to european "nice price" pressings to everything else/ prices ranged from $1.99 for some stuff to maybe $7.99 for something exotis, double album obscure &c ..
and IDK local big chain that sells records as well as cd;s and everything else .. i couldn't believe the prices but i guess that's what they cost around here ( and in the other 5-10 stores they have ? )
i always look in their records when i go in there and laugh out loud when i see how much stuff costs.

I don't see film-only people insulting the digital users. Always the other way around.

huh
maybe in the beginning i heard some digi users saying goofy stuff to me because 20 years ago or 15 years ago i had film being used
but IDK i think a lot of film users over the years were extramely angry and would "vent"

i used to try to stick up for hybrid and digital users a few years ago on a film only site i frequented but there
would always end up being angry film users who circled their wagons and said all sorts of not so nice stuff,
play mind games, try to act all smug and sophisticated and superior .. it was kind of lame....
as far as i am concerned the two technologies are close enough to be blood relatives, but people love to
dwell on differences and get all tribal ... it seems to be an international trend not only regarding picture taking devices but
pretty much everything one can think of .. its too bad because they are all dumb constructs ...what can you do ...
its human nature to divide + hate the other, ... rather than unite...

 

[Film-Niko]

vinyl ... really ?
.....
not sure that is a comeback

Where have you been the last years, on the moon ?
Vinyl has made a huge comeback:
The first phase already started at 1993: In the following four years sales increased by a factor of 3x.
Then sales have been stable for several years.
And then started a second phase in 2009: Since then yearly sales of vinyl records have been growing by 20 - 35% p.a. (depending on the year).
Now the sales volume of vinyl records is 45x (!!) higher than the volume at the bottom (lowest sales in 1991/92). Millions of vinyl records are sold p.a. And even big electronic shops are offering vinyl records again. It has become a big global market again.
Several new vinyl pressing plants were build up in the last years to satisfy the increasing demand.
Even Sony, which was the first company stopping vinyl production in the 80ies, is now building a new vinyl factory again!
Meanwhile there are more than 40 vinyl factories worldwide again. All operating at full capacity.

 

[MattKing]

You're kidding? It is a favorite sport around APUG, now Photrio.

Some yes, but way more of "go talk digital somewhere else - this is our place".

 

[faberryman]

Some yes, but way more of "go talk digital somewhere else - this is our place".

Yes, the land of H and D, just a checkbox away.

 

[removed account4]

Where have you been the last years, on the moon ?

LOL seems i have been either on the moon or subterranean marz ( i was delivering guitarz )

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

It's never going to come back like before digital cameras. The new people that are coming to analog photography will be Hipsters, artist, and fields that use photography for evidence. The U2 spy plane's camera is still analog.

https://www.wsj.com/video/spying-hi...ane/3CB35386-FE9E-4DF7-8B1C-8074FB4E026E.html

 

[RalphLambrecht]

It's just the other way round:
People who invested thousands of dollars in digital gear because they believed in the "film is dead" propaganda, can't stand the fact that film has not dissappeard, and is now gaining interest again.
Their "wishful thinking" it that film has no future, because then they can justify for themselves that they have paid so much for digital gear.

Fact is that the market for digital cameras has collapsed by 85% in the last years. Lots of digital OEM camera manufacturers had to stop production, and even the first big player (Samsung) left the digital camera market.
And instant film is now a huge mass volume market again, being much much bigger than the market for DSLM / MILC cameras. The MILC market was about 4.1 million units in 2017, the market for instant film cameras was more than 7 million cameras (!!!) in 2017.

The "film is dead" prayers only demonstrate their lack of knowledge of the current photography market developments.

go to the stores in my neighborhood and you'll see what's dead or laughed out the store if you ask for film!

 

[faberryman]

People who invested thousands of dollars in digital gear because they believed in the "film is dead" propaganda, can't stand the fact that film has not dissappeard, and is now gaining interest again. Their "wishful thinking" it that film has no future, because then they can justify for themselves that they have paid so much for digital gear.

What a fantasy.

 

[4season]

Where have you been the last years, on the moon ?
Vinyl has made a huge comeback:

Let's put things back into proper perspective by examining the bar chart here:
https://www.spin.com/2014/05/did-vinyl-really-die-in-the-90s-death-resurgence-sales/
While nothing to sneeze at, even if 2018 sees vinyl sales hit 15 or even 20 million, this is a far cry from the 300M+ of 1979-1980! Still, it seems like vinyl can be a good business to be in, if a company can turn a decent profit at those volumes.