The APUG Membership Council

[Black Dog]

I certainly appreciate (love your work BTW Robert) and occasionally use colour, even though I'm 99.9% b&w-just because I don't personally use something doesn't mean I wish to knock it, though IMNSHO digital colour is NOT clearly superior to analog colour (of course it has it's place as another tool though). And there are a few people out there who could definitely do with cooling their jets a bit.....deep breath now....

 

[FrankB]

I certainly appreciate (love your work BTW Robert) and occasionally use colour, even though I'm 99.9% b&w-just because I don't personally use something doesn't mean I wish to knock it, though IMNSHO digital colour is NOT clearly superior to analog colour (of course it has it's place as another tool though). And there are a few people out there who could definitely do with cooling their jets a bit.....deep breath now....

Well said, on all counts.


And, as ten rolls of Provia 100F arrived from 7dayshop today, I promise to post some when I've shot 'em!

(Helen: What do you reckon - Rollei 35S, Rollei 35 or Nikon F80 Nikkor 28-105mm?)

 

[Sean]

Now that bugs me. Why is that discussion private? Does the Council think that the rest of the membership have nothing to contribute?

Best,
Helen

Absolutely not. Someone came up with the idea yesterday. It's going to be a big project and we were just brainstorming and I planned to move that thread into the general forums today..

 

[johnnywalker]

That is why this is becoming more and more of a B&W only fan club.

I really don't think that's true. One of the reasons I started in B&W was so I could develope the negatives and pictures myself. Another reason was I figured (rightly or wrongly) it would be easier to learn on B&W. I'm still learning, and still have no facilities for developing colour. Right now I'm learning how to operate my 4X5, and I'd rather not do that with expensive colour film.
If (and it's a big If) I ever get really confident with the 4X5, I will try colour. I do use colour occasionally with my 35mm but the results have "no redeeming social value" - they all look like snapshots or gramma's vacation photos.
I always look at your and others colour landscape photos with admiration and some envy. Maybe one day.

 

[Andy K]

Robert, to cheer you up, my cameras' film preview windows...

 

[Gay Larson]

I really don't think that's true. One of the reasons I started in B&W was so I could develope the negatives and pictures myself.

I absolutely agree. I love having the control of developing the film and making the print suit me. And I have grown to love and appreciate black and white prints. However, I rememer one semester I took a course on color darkroom and we did develop the film and make our prints exactly how we would like and I really enjoyed it. The one print I made that I wanted to keep, I still love because it is entirely different and I made it. I can't get it looking the same unless I have it custom printed and lay out big $$ but they had all the expensive equipment to do it.

 

[Helen B]

Absolutely not. Someone came up with the idea yesterday. It's going to be a big project and we were just brainstorming and I planned to move that thread into the general forums today..

OK, I'll hold the draft OP I was flinging together. That's an interesting project.

Anybody who knows me even a tiny bit will know for sure that I am relieved not to have to decline an invitation to join the Council (ie I would certainly decline such an invitation but I dislike declining invitations, so I would rather not be asked thank you very much). I like being given jobs to do though, just as long as nobody will thank me for doing them, at least not with more than a small glass of beer or virtual equivalent.

I reject the thoughtless general assumption by a few contributors to this thread that the critics are motivated by envy. That is a rather small-minded assumption and I expect that the Council Members have been feeling your collars.

Frank: I'm not keen on those fresh-fangled zooms. They won't catch on, you mark my words. Go for the 35S.

Geert: Thanks for the sensible advice. I'll pass on it though, and continue to do whatever I have a passion for.

Best,
Helen

 

[Andy K]

Sean created APUG as a haven for traditional process photographers. For a long time he ran it alone, then it grew and he needed help, so he appointed moderators. The site carried on being one of the best on the web for traditional photography. He even gave up his career for this website. Now the site is even bigger and he needs more help. .

All the way all Sean has done is try to provide a good, friendly site. He has always been open and honest about any changes. He has always listened to members concerns.

For that we have people in this thread throwing his hard work and hospitality back in his face. They should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

Yeah, I'm the small minded one. :rolleyes:

 

[thebanana]

PE wrote:

The latest comments calls my career of 32 years at Kodak a "lie" and some of the other comments say as bad or worse.

I find it completely depressing (but not totally surprised) that someone on this site would resort to such juvenile behaviour.

 

[Dinesh]

PE wrote:

I find it completely depressing (but not totally surprised) that someone on this site would resort to such juvenile behaviour.

I'm not wearing pants!

 

[David Brown]

I'm not wearing pants!

TMI!!!

(yet, somehow not surprising ...)

 

[SuzanneR]

I'm not wearing pants!

"Film at eleven"

 

[Andy K]

I'm not wearing pants!

Thanks. Now I gotta stay up and watch crap TV until that godawful image is out of my mind!

 

[thebanana]

I'm not wearing pants!

If there was ever a case for doing hard drugs, this might be it.

 

[copake_ham]

Got busy at work and couldn't sign on and what do I find?

1) A bunch more pages to read.

2) Helen B. as the one person I can truly respect because, if offered, she would have declined to join said Council.

3) Council has now become a Star Chamber meeting in secret fora to plan a site inquisition.

4) One Mod seeming to have second thoughts as to how to square new class system with his socialist beliefs.

5) Continuing surprise that Andy K. now apparently supports "management" and new "class system" when I remember his vehement objections to "stars" when we were on RFF together. :rolleyes:

6) Trying to understand who 'dissed PE so bad that he's carrying the concern from "his thread" to here. :confused:

7) Wondering how much more time I have left here since I am one of those who is destined to be a permanent "outsider" in what seems to be an increasingly smaller circle of "insiders"? :confused:

8) Oh, yes, a ton more of work piled up in the office tomorrow so little time to try to check into APUG. But I sure hope I can catch a peek at what's going on in this thread!

Now I can go read some of the photography threads!

 

[Andy K]

Watch out for those black helicopters George.

 

[jovo]

Now I can go read some of the photography threads!

That's a damn good idea. I just spent four hours in the darkroom and accomplished something I've not been able to do before, and I'm really happy with the work. I'll post the pic when I can get a chance to use the 'photography' computer (which in our house is an absolute beast that could send someone to heaven with the correct url). By all means, George, get back to what brought you here in the first place. Site management is boring and certainly should be in the barely discernible background.

 

[thebanana]

Site management is boring and certainly should be in the barely discernible background.

Indeed!

 

[papagene]

OK, I admit it... I'm boring. Just ask my wife!

gene

 

[Tom Duffy]

Absolutely. If forming a council has created some consternation in the membership, think about what would be hitting the fan if it were a secret council!

Actually there is a secret council, but we can't tell anyone about it, or it wouldn't be secret, now would it?

Seriously, if Sean thinks he needs a council, then he needs a council. Let's just get on with what we do and post and read and photograph and have some fun.

I got tired of APUG for a while, no hysterics, I just stopped posting until I felt like coming back. But it's definitely worth coming back to.

Over the years, Sean has shown himself to be extremely even handed and patient with members, advertisers and people of "artistic temperment", i.e., immature. I further think that almost everyone would agree that the moderators have done a great job.

APUG is about traditional photography, let's leave the administrative overhead in Sean's hands and be about the important stuff.

Take care,
Tom

 

[copake_ham]

APUG Council II

What if it had been done another way?

Sean and the Mods chose the members of the new Council in private. With no input from subscribers asked for, or seemingly wanted.

Now, I know this site is NOT a democracy but a dictatorship. But I would hope it is a benign dictatorship wherein the members get to provide input, if not a majority rules vote.

Suppose Sean and the Mods had posted an inquiry stating that to better manage the site, it's been decided to create an Advisory Council.

And suppose, in making this organizational announcement they then went on to ask the Subscribers to the site to nominate, via PMs to Sean, potential Council members - indicating that they wanted a "X" number of persons to serve.

Then, subscribers could have been part of the process. Some could have nominated their best friend. Others could have nominated themselves as volunteers to serve etc.

Yes, the final choice would have remained Sean's, in consultation (presumably) with the Mods. but it would have been an inclusive one - not just a fiat from on high.

If only....

 

[copake_ham]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Terence]

The Shiites would take control while Iran would arm the Nikonians and Syria the Canonites. As things descend slowly into chaos amidst Improvised Hasselblad Devices and suicide photographers in khaki vests, the Moderators, led by Sean, would threaten to overthrow photo.net if it doesn't stop developing and exporting digit@l technology to the less educated folks of the world. France would surrender. Britain would support Sean, despite the general opposition of its populace. People would be tortured at the Forte, Foma and Efke plants, despite their denials to the contrary.

 

[jovo]

And suppose, George, that it had been created during a vision quest by a peyote toking medicine man, or by acclamation of a majority of the entire membership, or even by an act of God....would there have been any less contention from those who did not agree with the outcome? Puleeeeeeze......give it a rest. Enjoy this site for what it has to offer. If you're truly involved in the purpose of apug, the notion of a council or any other mechanism of running it should be nearly irrelevant to you.....no, I'll amend that since the word 'should' might suggest a 'directive' from a council member :rolleyes: , and change it to " 'may' be nearly irrelevant to you".

 

[Sean]

George,

I announced the council back in 2005 back then it was called the "Membership Moderation Team". The idea has evolved slightly but still remains. You'll even notice on the Home tab sub menu there has been a link for the council since early 2006 (will be updated soon), things got side tracked and put on the back burner until now. After announcing the membership moderation team I had extremely positive feedback, certainly nothing whatsoever to indicate it might destroy the lives of a few of our members. At that stage I assumed most people trust my track record and judgment and we'll get this thing rolling eventually. I have found that in running the site there are decisions you ask the community input on and there are decisions you make yourself, this is how you get things done. This was an operational decision much like a software upgrade is needed, or a new server is needed or a mod team is needed. Previously I chose my moderators and over time I have now chosen to increase the size of our team by building a council. I was not looking for a massive logistical nightmare of taking nominations, deliberating on nominations, waring members claiming they will leave if so and so's nomination is considered, infighting erupting, etc. I decided it would be best that between myself, the mod team and the council lead (Les McLean) that we could put together a diverse group of members to help us out with moderating the forums. We worked hard on this and are happy with the choices. I have no regrets about forming the council and would do it again. I'll do what I think is best for the site, that is all I have ever done for 5yrs now..