The APUG Membership Council

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Or as my own father used to end his letters to the Inland Revenue when he was in the navy (he stopped when he retired),

You have the honour,

Sir,

to remain,

my obedient servant...

You can count me among the glad ones for fulfilling that obligation.

 

[Dave Miller]

The railroad has gone by, Sean and his disciples will lead APUG'ers into the light. The theory that" if it aint broke, don't try to fix it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

As simple lowly subscriber's we have no voice or choice in that which has been forced upon us. In the future if one does not fall to the councils feet they will be banished.

Most likely this post will bring about the end of my posting on APUG. How ever this is the way I feel about any dictatorship. There is a lot of talent on this list, there are also many members that are held in high regard on APUG that truly do not know an f stop from a doorstop. Several on the " hand picked" council qualify in this regard.

Nuff said,
We are normally allowed to make decisions for ourself in this world but not on internet lists.

Have a great life,
Charlie................................................

That's a very sad post Charlie, I'm not sure where you got hold of the dictatorship analogy, but it’s not correct, far from it. Those of us who agreed to serve as Councillors have been thrashing out our role on a dedicated part of the forum set up for that purpose by Sean. We have been left to argue out our role, (I suppose a little like a jury) and how best we can serve the membership; that discussion has resulted in a very frank exchange of views, and indeed continues. The main thrust of these exchanges has revolved around the protection of members liberty rather than contemplating any dictatorial restriction. For myself, I see our role as being one of protecting, and where possible, enhancing that liberty within the realm of a civilised on-line community, whilst at the same time maintaining the original aims of this Forum.

 

[Dave Miller]

Katherine, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I checked to see if you had used the Introduce Yourself forum either when you first arrived here, or anytime since and didn't find that you had. Those who do usually get a lot of 'hellos' from a wide variety of members. Since I, for one, don't typically read the threads having to do with gum printing or other alternative processes, I wouldn't have encountered you to welcome in the first place. So, belatedly, welcome! I hope you continue to use, and hopefully enjoy, this site.

I should like to pick up on this point as well Katherine.
Currently there is no obligation for new members to introduce themselves to the existing membership; should there be? I have occasionally asked newcomers to do just that by way of a PM, a few have, but most do not, and I'm puzzled why. I would feel ill at ease if I entered a room full of people and joined in such a discussion without some form of introduction, however cursory. Do you feel that such a move would help, or perhaps you did not realise the facility existed, I am interested to know your view, and indeed anyone else's.

 

[Andy K]

Ah, the introduce yourself post... I remember mine, IIRC the first to welcome me was BWGirl... seems like only yesterday!

 

[jd callow]

One of the most active threads in the private forum is how to enhance access to the best information on the site. This discussion was started and is being pursued almost entirely by the council members. I won't say more, but it is pretty exciting and the council work to date is a far cry from what some here might think.

I always recommend the introduction forum to new members. I think it is a great asset and one that gives the existing members a point of reference when new people post. For members that are not shy and are willing and able to jump into the fray an introductory post is very beneficial.

 

[roteague]

That's a very sad post Charlie, I'm not sure where you got hold of the dictatorship analogy

I have no problem with anything Charlie has posted, although I think the dictatorship bit is one of hyperbole, vented out of frustration. I have no problem with Katherine's post either. I share their concerns. I have voiced my concerns privately, and I won't be part of causing any more division. However, I don't believe for one minute that the Council is representative of the membership of the forum. Frankly, this whole thing has caused nothing but strife and division.

 

[roteague]

Traditional analog color printing has been abandoned by professionals and other in the face of the clear technical superiority of digital.

That is why this is becoming more and more of a B&W only fan club.

 

[Ian Grant]

Robert, with photographers like you still working with colour transparency we can only hope others are inspired to follow your lead.

Ian

 

[PhotoHistorian]

This reminded me of something my father once said about a couple of our local town councillors who acted in a superior way:

"Remember that they are our servants, not our masters".


Steve.

Or something my Grandad told me many years ago and it can be aptly applied to many on this site, "if bullshit was brass, they would be the whole band."

Walker

 

[bill schwab]

That is why this is becoming more and more of a B&W only fan club.

Doesn't prevent me from enjoying the hell out of your work Robert! Glad you still hang around.

Bill

 

[Dave Miller]

Dave,
One of the most active threads in the private forum is how to enhance access to the best information on the site. This discussion was started and is being pursued almost entirely by the council members. I won't say more, but it is pretty exciting and the council work to date is a far cry from what some here might think.

That's true, but I find it more than a little sad that many are expressing dissatisfaction and animosity with a system that is untried. I don't know that we will ever make a difference to what happens here, but I have agreed to give it ago, so I will. I have no way of knowing if I am representative of the membership, or not, I'm not ever sure that such individuals exist, so I can only stick up for what I believe is correct for the future of the forum.

 

[Helen B]

Dave,
One of the most active threads in the private forum is how to enhance access to the best information on the site. This discussion was started and is being pursued almost entirely by the council members.
...

Now that bugs me. Why is that discussion private? Does the Council think that the rest of the membership have nothing to contribute?

Best,
Helen

 

[Dave Miller]

Now that bugs me. Why is that discussion private? Does the Council think that the rest of the membership have nothing to contribute?

Best,
Helen

Why should anyone think that?

 

[Andy K]

I for one am glad it's private. Look at the furore a few different badges has caused. And the behaviour of some (several who purport to be 'professionals' in their chosen fields) astonishes me.

 

[Photo Engineer]

For some reason, trying to bring emulsion making to this forum has caused me to undergo a lot of verbal abuse. The latest comments calls my career of 32 years at Kodak a "lie" and some of the other comments say as bad or worse.

I say that this should not happen in a polite community where one can prove his bona fides with either pictures or knowledge or both.

This group, established by Sean, can help prevent this type of abuse. My only recourses are to take the abuse or leave APUG, neither of which I wish to do. I say that this thread has gone the course and should be closed with a grateful sigh of AMEN. For those who have not gotten hate messages or posts, you may not appreciate this comment.

PE

 

[Dave Miller]

Why should anyone think that?

I should have added that If you feel it a valid topic then open a thread in the normal way and start the discussion.

 

[JJC]

That is why this is becoming more and more of a B&W only fan club.

Maybe turning around that scenario (real or perceived) would be a good project for the council.......?

 

[Dave Miller]

For some reason, trying to bring emulsion making to this forum has caused me to undergo a lot of verbal abuse. The latest comments calls my career of 32 years at Kodak a "lie" and some of the other comments say as bad or worse.

I say that this should not happen in a polite community where one can prove his bona fides with either pictures or knowledge or both.

This group, established by Sean, can help prevent this type of abuse. My only recourses are to take the abuse or leave APUG, neither of which I wish to do. I say that this thread has gone the course and should be closed with a grateful sigh of AMEN. For those who have not gotten hate messages or posts, you may not appreciate this comment.

PE

That's certainly part of our remit, and it may yet prove to be the only worthwhile one. Time will tell.

 

[jd callow]

Helen,
I'm sorry you are bugged and even more sorry that I've mentioned it. I didn't mention how they plan on implementing it, who or what will be evolved, or really anything of substance.

Might it be that they will involve everyone when they've something to discuss?

 

[Poco]

Now that bugs me. Why is that discussion private? Does the Council think that the rest of the membership have nothing to contribute?

Best,
Helen

Helen,

The rest of the membership contributed their part by PROVIDING that best information through 4 years of posting. Now it's time for trusted folks to privately debate how to use it.

This whole thing is too twisted for me. I give up.

 

[Dave Miller]

Helen,

The rest of the membership contributed their part by PROVIDING that best information through 4 years of posting. Now it's time for trusted folks to privately debate how to use it.

This whole thing is too twisted for me. I give up.

I prescribe a couple of hours in a darkroom.

 

[argus]

Now that bugs me. Why is that discussion private? Does the Council think that the rest of the membership have nothing to contribute?

Best,
Helen

Helen,

because, if you would understand something about decision making, it is easier to make a decent proposal (or several) for improvement in a smaller group and then present it to the majority.
Too many voices and opinions make decision making a very difficult task. Just think about how democracy works, or the management of a company.
Sean did not let us (s)elect the council, but has chosen its members. It seems normal to me that if you want advice, you do that with people you trust and value.

I used to own and run (I sold the site last year) a local online community with 5000 registered members, from whom some 1000 active. I too had my council, even if it was never made public, that I asked advice in how to improve the website/community and sometimes how to manage the members.

IMHO, I think that most of those that oppose to the council would rather have been a member of it...

Greetings,
Geert

 

[Andy K]

IMHO, I think that most of those that oppose to the council would rather have been a member of it...

I agree. It seems a few egos have been bruised.

 

[jd callow]

I agree. It seems a few egos have been bruised.

And it could be that there are real concerns. I think everyone, those in favour, on the fence and against, take a breath and see what happens. The council could be a monumental ____________ or something soon taken as little more than a small fairly benign aspect to the site.

 

[BWGirl]

Ah, the introduce yourself post... I remember mine, IIRC the first to welcome me was BWGirl... seems like only yesterday!

As I've welcomed many!