tell me about the RB67

markbarendt · Sep 7, 2011

BetterSense said:
It's almost distressing, that I can't get myself to break out the 4x5 much anymore...it's just so easy to use the RB67 instead. Only for compositions that demand lens movements do I use the 4x5 any more...given the focusing bellows of the RB67, and the immense coverage of most of the lenses, it's a shame Mamiya didn't include the ability to do lens tilt.

This is way true.

I did though break out the 4x5 last weekend and had great fun.

It was really nice not to have to load a reel to develop and man the negatives are nice.

Wayne · Sep 7, 2011

I figure its win win no matter what happens, as long as I use the RB some. If I love it and use it all the time, that's great. If it makes me miss 4x5 and causes me to use that more, great. If I end up using both, great. I will admit I'm not looking forward to reels, which I havent used since high school but...if it gets me in the darkroom, its all good. And 6x7 reels cant be as bad as 35mm.

BetterSense · Sep 7, 2011

I actually think that roll film is much easier and more consistent in the darkroom. With sheet film, it takes more effort to obtain even, scratch free, and most of all, pre-exposure-dust-free negatives. I have to admit that even being careful with sheet film I often deal with black spots from pre-exposure dust. With roll film, I almost never do, partly because I always shoot several 6x7 negatives of the same subject, so even if I did it wouldn't matter.

Roger Cole · Sep 7, 2011

Humm, I use reels for 4x5, namely the Jobo 2609n. It's easier to load (somewhat) than 120, but both are pretty much child's play after a bit of practice.

Sheet film IS a hassle to load into holders and keep (mostly) dust free, and no one can ensure completely dust free film every shot. My routine works pretty well but does take some work - run the air cleaner in the darkroom and wipe down the table with a damp cloth and let it dry. Then I clean each holder and dark slide with a "One Pass Cleaning Roller" I bought years ago from the old F Stops Here, and carefully stack the holders and lay our the slides. In the dark just before loading the film I blow out the holder with compressed air, then after loading the film I turn the holder upside down (that is, film down) and tap the back then slide the darkslid in. I admit it's a PITA but saves more time than it costs not to mention the frustration.

OTOH, the negatives are just worth it. Plus I like working with the big, slow camera. Doesn't mean I wouldn't also like an RB though, maybe, someday.

markbarendt · Sep 7, 2011

I agree that sheets can be a challenge compared to rolls.

This last round I used the JOBO test drum, development was great. I'm new to LFN though and found it's limit on the last few sheets.

Wayne · Sep 8, 2011

I'm lucky. I never had any problem with uneven development or scratches, and I've always developed by hand in trays. Can't say I havent had any dust, but some is inevitable. I take no special precautions though, other than cleaning the holders before loading film.

Wayne · Sep 26, 2011

Well I made my offer to the guy with Pro-S stuff. I offered him $200 for a body, 90mm lens and 2 backs. He was clearly insulted. Although I do think it would have been a decent deal for me, I dont think it was an insulting offer. Based on what I'm seeing, that amount of gear usually goes for about $250. So it didn't seem insulting to me at all. Oh well I tried.

Jerevan · Sep 26, 2011

Wayne, I've had that sort of reaction when I helped out with grading and buying equipment for a store - prices have dropped so much, while many people still think things are worth the same as it was ten years ago, or even five years ago.

philosomatographer · Sep 26, 2011

I just scanned this print I made today from an RB67 shot on Ilford Pan F @ ISO32. The detail rivals much of my large-format work - this is such a capable camera system!

High-Tension Teamwork

(RB67, Sekor-C 140mm Macro at f/8)

Absolutely every last rivet and wire is perfectly resolved, I could print this to 30x40in and stick my nose right in it.

CGW · Sep 26, 2011

Wayne said:
Well I made my offer to the guy with Pro-S stuff. I offered him $200 for a body, 90mm lens and 2 backs. He was clearly insulted. Although I do think it would have been a decent deal for me, I dont think it was an insulting offer. Based on what I'm seeing, that amount of gear usually goes for about $250. So it didn't seem insulting to me at all. Oh well I tried.

Not sure an extra 50 bucks would sweeten things but I'd offer it and let him know it's there if he wants it. He's not aware what he'd get paid for the kit is bound be a good deal less than a retail price. See this all the time under the big auction tent when items are relisted endlessly with no--or only small--price reductions. Sooner or later they get it.

Wayne · Sep 26, 2011

Part of the problem is he has a LOT of gear-numerous lenses and backs and 2 bodies and soft focus filters (blechhh) and other assorted accessories. So part of his reluctance is because he wants to sell in bigger kits than I want or can afford right now. On the other hand he really isnt TRYING to sell any of it, so I don't quite get that attitude. I'd buy more but earlier this year I was selling off gear because I needed cash, so buying more would not be wise for me. I'm doing this foray into to MF to save money.

My rehearsed offer had me offering him $50 more if he threw in another lens, but Act II was cancelled when Act I fell flat. I think he would have been even more insulted by that. And I could tell by his tone of voice that his level of insult wouldn't be bought off with 50 more bucks...

But I see him from time to time and maybe he will soften once he researches what these are selling for, not just what people are asking.

Jeff Kubach · Sep 26, 2011

Wayne said:
Well I made my offer to the guy with Pro-S stuff. I offered him $200 for a body, 90mm lens and 2 backs. He was clearly insulted. Although I do think it would have been a decent deal for me, I dont think it was an insulting offer. Based on what I'm seeing, that amount of gear usually goes for about $250. So it didn't seem insulting to me at all. Oh well I tried.

People always think that their own stuff is top notch.

Jeff

CGW · Sep 26, 2011

Wayne said:
Part of the problem is he has a LOT of gear-numerous lenses and backs and 2 bodies and soft focus filters (blechhh) and other assorted accessories. So part of his reluctance is because he wants to sell in bigger kits than I want or can afford right now. On the other hand he really isnt TRYING to sell any of it, so I don't quite get that attitude. I'd buy more but earlier this year I was selling off gear because I needed cash, so buying more would not be wise for me. I'm doing this foray into to MF to save money.

My rehearsed offer had me offering him $50 more if he threw in another lens, but Act II was cancelled when Act I fell flat. I think he would have been even more insulted by that. And I could tell by his tone of voice that his level of insult wouldn't be bought off with 50 more bucks...

But I see him from time to time and maybe he will soften once he researches what these are selling for, not just what people are asking.

I've seen the same movie. Many sellers want to clear large kits intact but can't face the realities of film gear prices in 2011--all they see is what it cost them 10-20 years ago. No point annoying them with a tutorial in depreciation and current value. Keep shopping and be patient.

Wayne · Sep 26, 2011

Yup. Maybe he will Google RB67 value and find this thread. RB67 value, RB67 current value, current RB67 value. That should help. I'm still interested, Frank, but you've gotta come down!

Unfortunately not many of these around where I live, and I hate to buy online. But I will keep looking. Maybe I can get the guy with non-pro S outfit to sell me one dirt cheap.

hpulley · Sep 26, 2011

I must say, it is annoying when someone knows something is worth $250 and they offer $200. I guess that is how you're supposed to play it, he's supposed to say, "No, $300" and you say, "How about we meet in the middle at $250?" and he says, grudgingly, "Well, you twisted my arm." Why do we do this to ourselves?

Sadly these cameras and lenses sold new for thousands of dollars not that long ago. For people that bought new or 5-10 years ago the current paperweight prices are hard to swallow.

You may have to eBay it and hope or pay a small premium for something you can turn over in your hands and try first. Good luck getting your deal.

Travis Nunn · Sep 26, 2011

If you want a ProS kit with a 90mm lens, you can go to KEH and get:
Mamiya RB - Camera Outfits
RB67 PRO-S WITH WAISTLEVEL, 90 F3.8 C, 120 PRO-S BACK, MEDIUM FORMAT SLR MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA OUTFIT

for $291. You don't get the extra back but you do get a 6 month warranty.

CGW · Sep 26, 2011

"Sadly these cameras and lenses sold new for thousands of dollars not that long ago. For people that bought new or 5-10 years ago the current paperweight prices are hard to swallow."

Harry, most of the RB gear on the market is way older than that and little of it is one owner. I'm seeing some crazy pricing on medium ugly Pro and ProS gear on ebay now.

hpulley · Sep 26, 2011

Most are 20-40 years old, I know...

Wayne · Sep 26, 2011

Hpulley, I generally make one offer, and that is my offer. This guy wouldn't price his stuff for me, so I had to come up with an offer. I'm not saying his gear isn't worth more, but my offer was what I could afford, which may be a bit less than average market value. But I'm sure i can get a body, lens and at least one back for $200 if I keep looking.

Roger Cole · Sep 26, 2011

hpulley said:
I must say, it is annoying when someone knows something is worth $250 and they offer $200. I guess that is how you're supposed to play it, he's supposed to say, "No, $300" and you say, "How about we meet in the middle at $250?" and he says, grudgingly, "Well, you twisted my arm." Why do we do this to ourselves?

I'm with you on that. I hate haggling. Put a price on it and the price is the price. I will very rarely offer any less; I'll just walk away. I figure they know what they want for it and what they will take for it and offering them less is as good as calling them a liar. I feel the same way as a seller. What part of "the price is xxxx" didn't they understand the first time?

I realize I'm the oddball in this, but there it is.

In this case if I wanted one I'd just buy it from KEH and be done with it. You can check it over, return it within two weeks if you're not happy for any reason or no reason, and have a six month warranty. It may cost more, because that's worth more.

CGW · Sep 26, 2011

Wayne said:
Hpulley, I generally make one offer, and that is my offer. This guy wouldn't price his stuff for me, so I had to come up with an offer. I'm not saying his gear isn't worth more, but my offer was what I could afford, which may be a bit less than average market value. But I'm sure i can get a body, lens and at least one back for $200 if I keep looking.

Be patient and be willing to assemble a kit from separates: lens, body, back, finder. It's possible to get better for less relative to a complete camera.

BetterSense · Sep 26, 2011

My 50mm C lens has a camera store sticker that says $699 on the back cap. I paid well under half that for my body, two backs, and 3 lenses.

But I do wish I had a polaroid back.

Wayne · Sep 26, 2011

Roger Cole said:
In this case if I wanted one I'd just buy it from KEH and be done with it. You can check it over, return it within two weeks if you're not happy for any reason or no reason, and have a six month warranty. It may cost more, because that's worth more.

And if you want to give the extra $100, I WILL buy it.

Roger Cole · Sep 27, 2011

Wayne said:
And if you want to give the extra $100, I WILL buy it.

Not following all the details of pricing but it's not like you're getting this one for that price, is it?

But I do understand. If it's too much it's too much.

markbarendt · Sep 27, 2011

Roger Cole said:
I'm with you on that. I hate haggling. Put a price on it and the price is the price. I will very rarely offer any less; I'll just walk away. I figure they know what they want for it and what they will take for it and offering them less is as good as calling them a liar. I feel the same way as a seller. What part of "the price is xxxx" didn't they understand the first time?

I realize I'm the oddball in this, but there it is.

In this case if I wanted one I'd just buy it from KEH and be done with it. You can check it over, return it within two weeks if you're not happy for any reason or no reason, and have a six month warranty. It may cost more, because that's worth more.

This is a cultural thing, you are not an oddball.

Problem is that it doesn't always reflect reality.

KEH has a lot of experience pricing things, most individuals don't, they also have a large and well developed market, and individuals normally don't.

Some of the best deals I've ever found were made with a simple offer to an individual and/or with a bit of haggling.

Generally when an individual wants too much for something it's because the individual doesn't understand it's value and needs some education or it's value is still just too significant to them.

Part of the problem with a simple take it or leave it offer is that it is easy to be viewed as an insult by the seller, a bit of haggling and compromise removes the insult.

tell me about the RB67

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